<beach>
I can't figure out the purpose of the parameters to the macro. They seem be only to provide names for lexical variables. Plus, it seems that this macro works only when the first argument is the symbol FRAME, because that symbol is used literally to define a lexical variable.
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<jackdaniel>
you can't figure the purpose of each parameter or only some of them?
<jackdaniel>
also where did this code come from?
<jackdaniel>
beach:
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<jackdaniel>
what is utils:unlisted? if it is a macro then frame and ,frame can denote two different things
<jackdaniel>
hm, nvm the last remark
<jackdaniel>
(I didn't notice the comma before let)
<jackdaniel>
but the question "what is utils:unlisted?" stands
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<jackdaniel>
beach: in any case it may have a different name than frame, it is not used verbatim in the macro expansion
<jackdaniel>
as of other arguments than frame, I can only imagine that they are used to customize key names for each method specialized to a hypothetical function (defgeneric top-level (frame &key &allow-other-keys))
<jackdaniel>
(and bindings argument provides some automatically established dynamic context)
<beach>
I see. Thanks.
<jackdaniel>
sure
<jackdaniel>
where did this code come from?
<beach>
ESA
<beach>
Slightly modified.
<jackdaniel>
I see
<beach>
OK, I see the use of the parameters now.
<beach>
Since ESA is totally broken, I took the opportunity to do a major overhaul of it, something that I have wanted to do for a long time.
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<fosskers>
Neat, I hadn't heard of that.
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<beach>
"that"?
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<fosskers>
ESA
<beach>
I see.
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<edgar-rft>
wow, code from the European Space Agency ...
<beach>
Don't worry, the overhauled version has a different name.
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<drmeister>
I'm less enamored by ChatGippity for writing complex Common Lisp code. I spent two weeks fixing bugs in my algebra compiler.
<drmeister>
I used ChatGPT5.1-codex-max to write https://github.com/thirdlawtechnologies/mathkernel to compile equations and first and second derivatives and generate optimized C-code to evaluate them.
<ixelp>
GitHub - thirdlawtechnologies/mathkernel: Common Lisp expression IR + automatic differentiation + simplifier + canonical [...]
<drmeister>
I wrote it to handle equations that are piecewise and I have if/then/else blocks that calculate different equations under different conditions. That required an expression block walker and generic functions and classes to store and update environments as it walked the branches and ChatGPT did not do as well with that.
<drmeister>
It made several subtle and stupid mistakes that took a while to understand and fix.
<drmeister>
Don't use it to write code for compilers. It is helpful to spot mistakes. I'm running it in read-only mode from now on.
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<dlowe>
I have had fairly good luck with claude code but you have to verify everything. I wrote a lisp image MCP to enable automatic testing and environment querying to enable a feedback loop.
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<dlowe>
Saying specifically to treat the code as a tree of forms rather than textual tokens improved its output immensely.
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<dlowe>
It could get in a death loop trying to count parentheses :p
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<humasect>
the ring must be complete
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<drmeister>
dlowe: I agree on telling it to treat the code as a tree of forms rather than textual tokens to get better parenthesis balancing.
<drmeister>
Also, tell it not to use "t" as a variable.
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<drmeister>
I like your "treat the code as a tree of forms rather than textual tokens" I'll add that to my AGENTS.md file.
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<yaneko>
is there some idiomatic function that does (not (null ...)))? for bool checking?
<yaneko>
is this (atom ..)?
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<yaneko>
not really
<decweb>
I've found Claude to be superior to ChatGPT when it comes to all things Common Lisp. (I only have access to the free models though). Gemini may be making strides there too, jury is still out for me on that one.
<aeth>
drmeister: That does seem to match other people's experiences, where it doesn't really save time because the bugs are really subtle.
<aeth>
Not entirely useless, e.g. for anywhere where verification is easy (at the extreme end, theorems as part of automated theorem proving?)
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<dlowe>
yaneko: usually people will just use the value for bool checking instead of (not (null ...))
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<dlowe>
yaneko: You could use (defun boolify (x) (if x 't nil)) I guess if you really wanted a boolean
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<humasect>
typecase ah
<dlowe>
I'm still not sure if I'm saving any time using it, considering how much harder it is to read code than to write it.
<dlowe>
and I don't like the companies on general principle.
<humasect>
suppose it could read it to you 'turn this into prose..'
<rgherdt_>
yaneko: one alternative: (and ... t)
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<dlowe>
ok yes that's simpler
<dlowe>
annoying to read though
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<yaneko>
why it shows invalid number of arguments when Ido restart on frame?
<yaneko>
after recompiling the function
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<yaneko>
I get so often this
<yaneko>
and can't understand the cause
<dlowe>
It's because when you restart, it's still "in" the old function
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<yaneko>
I restarted on show-stats
<yaneko>
it failed on the tree-ordr which is inside show-stats
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<dlowe>
the _call_ is inside show-stats, in order to get to the recompiled call, you will need to go one level up from show-stats
<yaneko>
ahhh
<yaneko>
but why the error is named like this
<dlowe>
I suspect you made that typo more than once when you were defining the function :)
<yaneko>
so it created the symbol with the function?
<yaneko>
that was basically nil?
<dlowe>
One of the more confusing things about interacting with a lisp is that your lisp image accumulates everything you've done, even if there's no representation in the file.
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<yaneko>
I recompiled the -rec and restarted from the method most below in file
<yaneko>
invalid argument in frame-args-as-list which is internal sbcl
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<yaneko>
maybe this is something with generic
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<soulseeder>
hey all, I'm trying some basic things with threads and curious to know if `format` is thread safe (As in, can I use it to write logs from multiple threads without extra coordination?)
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<jackdaniel>
format is, streams are usually not. you need to coordinate
<soulseeder>
got it
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<drmeister>
aeth: Yup.
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