08:33 <SiFuh> ukky: I was cutting the tree I chopped down yesterday with a hand saw today to make smaller pieces for fire wood. The carpenter came over to measure some stuff and said "Your saw is very sharp" I said "Of course, it's a saw, besides, if it was blunt, it's useless" He asked where I bought it from and then told me that shop was expensive. I said "I am prepared to pay for good tools because it makes life

08:33 <SiFuh> easier"

09:51 <SiFuh> ukky: Interesting BAHCO X97 is a Japanese hand saw. :-) Nice. I didn't know mine was Japanese

11:30 <farkuhar> zorz_ proposed some distro names: Asterix, Ovelix, ... For the multilib distro that serpente prefers, I think the name Ambidexterix is better.

11:33 <farkuhar> multilib issues were the motivation for the two patches that GazL shared in #crux last week: https://pastebin.com/DpasqqN7 and https://pastebin.com/mGa6Xxvi

11:34 <farkuhar> jue commented on GazL's patches here: https://git.crux.nu/ports/core/issues/18

12:27 <ppetrov^> farkuhar, how about the name SiFuX

12:28 <ppetrov^> alternatively, yenjiex

12:33 <farkuhar> So ppetrov^ has resigned himself to the continued fragmentation of the FOSS landscape?

12:34 <ppetrov^> :)

12:34 <ppetrov^> i propose to merge CRUX and Slackware... Cruxware

12:34 <ppetrov^> or Slacrux

12:35 <ppetrov^> Arch + CRUX = Arcrux

12:37 <farkuhar> My first encounter with a source-based distro was Gentoo, in 2002. A few years later I was dabbling with Lunar Linux. It didn't occur to me that all this duplication of effort (as ppetrov^ might put it) was necessarily a bad thing.

12:37 <SiFuh> Cruxware <-- Heh

12:38 <SiFuh> FakQCrux :-)

12:38 <ppetrov^> farkuhar, it's the way OSS is, whether it's bad or not, is another topic

12:38 <ppetrov^> i like the variety

12:38 <ppetrov^> Beermanix

12:38 <ppetrov^> Oultmiex

12:38 <ppetrov^> Olutmiex

12:38 <ppetrov^> sori

12:39 <SiFuh> ppetrov^: FakQ Beerman

12:42 <SiFuh> Mondai no kakushin!

12:55 <farkuhar> gimp-3.0.2/data/environ/default.env.in has @BIN_PATH@ as its only uncommented line, and BIN_PATH doesn't appear in any other source file besides data/environ/meson.build. Is `meson setup` supposed to replace @BIN_PATH@ with something specific to the system where gimp is being built?

12:58 <farkuhar> What I might try next ... Replace @BIN_PATH@ in default.env.in with a hard-coded empty string, and delete the lines from meson.build that try to set this value based on a test of platform_windows and relocatable_bundle.

13:10 <farkuhar> Hmm, that didn't work so well. Now gimp-console-3.0 complains on the penultimate build target: "The procedure 'python-fu-eval' is not a valid batch interpreter. Batch mode disabled."

13:15 <farkuhar> It's amusing that the autotools build (gimp 2.10.38) invoked configure with --disable-python, but gimp 3.0.2 is now relying so heavily on python (both for script-fu, and for the meson build itself).

13:17 <farkuhar> The upstream sources have now fully deprecated autotools builds, so the old ./configure invocation is no longer a possibility.

13:53 <farkuhar> Hmm, to disable the final target that was causing the segfault, all I had to do was `sed -i "/build_by_default:/s/true/false/; /install:/s/true/false/;" gimp-data/images/meson.build`. Now let's see if the resulting package is actually usable.

14:04 <farkuhar> Nope, it's just as crippled as when I deleted the line subdir('gimp-data/images/') from the top-level meson.build. It's time for me to give up and let the actual port maintainer take it from here.

14:11 <ppetrov^> farkuhar, have you tried a clean CRUX install?

15:12 <farkuhar> ppetrov^: comm -23 <(prt-get listinst) <(prt-get depends gimp | awk '{print $NF}' | sort) | grep -v -F -f <(cd /usr/ports/core && ls)

15:13 <ppetrov^> ?

15:13 <farkuhar> 130 ports reported by the command above, so I guess your point about an unclean CRUX installation is worth exploring.

15:17 <farkuhar> I'm not a big fan of the response "it builds fine in a clean container, resolve the build issues on an unclean system yourself." Why is it not a supported use-case to have the build environment be the same as the eventual deployment system? Are users really expected to set up container builds for all their software?

15:22 <farkuhar> I know darfo populates his $PKGMK_PACKAGE_DIR that way (with container builds starting from a clean core-only install), but many users won't go through the trouble to set up such a system.

16:02 <ppetrov^> farkuhar, I agree with you, and I did not mean it that way. Simply, if it builds on a "clean" system, it would be easier to narrow down what causes the problem

20:45 <ukky> SiFuh: agree, most tools should be expensive. Treated well, they will last must longer than we live.

20:51 <ukky> SiFuh: "BAHCO X97 is a Japanese hand saw", - I'm jealous.

20:52 <SiFuh> ukky: The guy whose tree I chopped down the other day was out the front digging a hole for his new Rambutan Tree. I came to see him. Asked him if what I did was good. I was kind of shocked at the response. He said "Yes." And continued digging the hole. Hahahaha

20:53 <SiFuh> ukky: I didn't know it was. I just checked the blade and liked it. It was only today I found it was Japanese. I paid like 40 MYR for it. SO not even expensive.

20:54 <SiFuh> Been using it for a couple of years now. Still cuts like a razor blade.

20:56 <ukky> It seems BAHCO is international brand. I have BAHCO 300 and it is Made in Sweden.

20:56 <SiFuh> Interesting

20:57 <ukky> 'Made in Sweden' is embedded into the plastic handle, on the bottom.

20:57 <SiFuh> ukky: No rust? Mine has not even a pinhead size rust spot.

20:57 <ukky> Mine has rust.

20:57 <SiFuh> ukky: How long have you owned it?

20:58 <ukky> I have it for about 20 years, give or take.

21:00 <SiFuh> ukky: I just checked the handle. It has made in Sweden also. Push cut.

21:01 <ukky> Maybe your blade is made in Japan.

21:01 <SiFuh> Yeah I was thinking that. I expected the blade to rust after first use. Especially since I have extremely high humidity here

21:02 <SiFuh> Also I never throw the original cardboard sleeve out. I always wipe the blade down and stick it back in the sleeve.

21:02 <SiFuh> The blade says TOMOKO JAPAN or something like that.

21:03 <ukky> Haha. I keep only blade protector (slim plastic cover)

21:03 <SiFuh> Bahco is a Swedish brand within the hand tool industry, which is now part of SNA Europe, part of Snap-on. Its roots go back to the industrial revolution in Sweden in the late eighteen hundreds, starting with innovations such as the pipe wrench and the modern adjustable wrench. Since then, the product range has expanded with a total assortment of products that today includes over 7000 hand tools.

21:04 <SiFuh> https://www.lazada.com.my/products/bahco-19-x97-handsaw-gekaji-kayu-tangan-100-original-i1109320480.html <-- I have this one pretty much

21:06 <SiFuh> ukky: I always hated my father's saws. Always blunt, waste my time. So I don't even bother sharpening them. I just stash them, throw them, and by a new one.

21:08 <SiFuh> ukky: I need a thermal imager for some of the work I do here. Wife is saying "Buy it" but the prices are quite high.

21:08 <ukky> My metal saw has dull blade, as I still use original blade and made many cuts with it.

21:09 <SiFuh> Heh, blunt sucks. Cuts or not. Eventually I will get a metal smelting furnace and I can repurpose the metal.

21:10 <SiFuh> Nothing cooler than taking a hot crucible with molten metal inside and pouring into a mould to create something new.

21:10 <SiFuh> If I had my own land and not live in a town house here, I'd have already built one out the back.

21:11 <ukky> Aren't saw blades hard to melt?

21:11 <SiFuh> All you need is plenty of oxygen and you can raise any furnace to extreme temperatures

21:14 <ukky> Thermal imaging tools must be expensive.

21:14 <SiFuh> Yes, but I was looking at one that is 1.6K But there are others that are much cheaper they are just blur blur blur

21:15 <SiFuh> 1.6 MYR

21:15 <SiFuh> ulefone and blackview make many phones with FLIR built in. But the quality is not good.

21:17 <ukky> $370 USD is a lot for a tool. Does it woth to buy?

21:17 <ukky> s/woth/worth/

21:17 <SiFuh> I have many uses for it outside of what I want it for. But to be honest, I don't think so.

21:18 <SiFuh> ukky: How come you didn't correct 'Does'?

21:18 <ukky> I changed my mind what I wanted to say... So, 'Does' happened.

21:19 <SiFuh> I use Thermal imagining to find hot spots and wire locations inside of walls. Checking parts of engines and motors. But it can be used for many things like seeing animals or Sasquatch hiding in the jungle.

21:21 <SiFuh> In Au, I see people tapping walls and reading wiring diagrams for houses. I have to ways to find wires. Turn the switch on. Use a custom antenna I made (Really easy) and connect to an oscilloscope. Or use Thermal imaging.

21:22 <ukky> Thermal imaging is too expensive for such uses.

21:23 <SiFuh> ukky: Ahh but it can save your life or save huge dramas. Such as looking for underground power lines. Shorts in the mains, water pipes also are cooler and can be seen before you dig.

21:24 <SiFuh> If the pipes are under concrete though, it is harder to see.

21:25 <ukky> SiFuh: it is just an opinion. You are the boss. Only you can justify the expense.

21:25 <SiFuh> Most people assume that thermal works on heat therefore it only sees heat. Which is true, but what they don't realise is it can see cold too because of the minimal amount of heat.

21:26 <SiFuh> ukky: I didn't buy it today or the Silky Big Boy. I decided to delay it. However, I have 8 holes to drill into a wall that is live and no one knows where those wires are.

21:27 <SiFuh> ukky: I was thinking to use something more primitive to test the wire locations and use the compass my wife owns.

21:27 <ukky> So, use drill with limiter, if you know the thickness of the wall.

21:28 <SiFuh> ukky: I know how thick the wall is. I just don't know where the wires are

21:29 <ukky> Are wires going through holes in the bricks? What type of walls do you have?

21:29 <SiFuh> ukky: My plan is to pop my head into the ceiling and see where they run. Then hopefully if they are there, I can have an idea of where they pass.

21:29 <SiFuh> Probably bricks and definaletly concrete

21:30 <SiFuh> The power box is near the door, the mains is centre wall. I can only hope it goes up into the ceiling and crossed above the mains and down.

21:35 <ukky> Before investing into any tool I would try to look down into wall cracks from attic.

21:35 <SiFuh> ukky: Tell you a funny one today. We are having cupboards designed for the hallway upstairs. We actually have NO cupbaords in this house so junk is everywhere. The carpenter is kind of arguing with me. He wants the cupboards to the ceiling. I said from the facier board you go down at an angle. He doesn't want to do it because it is a bit complicated. He tries to convince the wife, then the wife schools

21:35 <SiFuh> me! I said "You are forgetting something" The wife had a dead look towards me and says "What are we forgetting?" I said "The ceiling access hole. If he goes straight up. No one can get into our ceiling and I am not moving it"

21:35 <SiFuh> ukky: Can't. Want a photo?

21:36 <ukky> I believe you, when you say "I cannot"

21:47 <SiFuh> ukky: Look at the space. https://i.snipboard.io/7rsIBJ.jpg Look at the dividing wall in the ceiling. https://i.snipboard.io/MR4Y0J.jpg. Unless I less than 3cm thin. I cannot.

21:48 <SiFuh> Even if I could squeeze in. The plaster would shatter everywhere.

21:50 <SiFuh> ukky: I found an old bent hammer in there once. When I mentioned it to my Malay friends they say that it is black magic. They curse it and put inside your ceiling where you can't find it