<EliSoli>
xdg-desktop-portal-wlr depends on either systemd, elogind or basu, and I'm using seatd :( is there another option or maybe I should patch it? idk
<kris_>
surprisingly luke smith uploaded a video earlier today
<kris_>
after having been practically gone for a few years
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<il>
Interesting video; thesis: you have more agency than you think
<kris_>
i feel like luke smith would be an interesting person to sit down and have a conversation with
<kris_>
free will absolutely does not exist but it's not something that limits you from doing things IMHO
<kris_>
it just controls the things you want to do
<EliSoli>
same
<il>
kris_: yes, but... Trying to act as if free will doesn't exist is self-defeating.
<il>
And... Acting as if free will exists makes sense even if it doesn't ;)
<kris_>
my issue with this is that there's nothing substantial about the implications of this
<il>
About implication of what?
<kris_>
like if someone is doing fine and comes to the conclusion that free will doesn't exist at some point and just completely decides to stop progressing in life- that's an incredibly piss poor mentality
<kris_>
the problem that i have is that people seem to treat this like it's a profound life changing realization when in reality absolutely nothing changed
<il>
kris_: sounds like you believe in free will there?
<EliSoli>
for me freedom is living by your own, growing food your own and so on. The same can be said for computers, as long as you develop everything you need, from the libc to the IRC client your own graphic interface runs
<il>
piss poor mentality implies the person has a choice...
<kris_>
they don't
<kris_>
or do
<kris_>
it's complicated, people will always do what they're going to do and respond how they're going to respond
<il>
If they don't have a choice, how's it piss poor?
<EliSoli>
high level convo
<kris_>
like the decisions we make are pretty much entirely dictated by our brains chemistry- which isn't something that's properly under our control
<il>
Maybe
<kris_>
yes you can take medication to alter it but you're doing that for a reason that is consequential to something out of your control
<kris_>
everything in this universe follows a trend of cause and effect, and *most of it* until you boil this down to a quantum level tends to be pretty accurately predictable
<kris_>
but i don't mean to say randomness doesn't exist on a physical level
<kris_>
(because it does)
<il>
Believing you have high agency has better outcomes probably across the board compared to fatalism. Knowing this, choosing to believe you have high agency is rational.
<il>
Assuming your goal is to have good outcomes in life.
<kris_>
you can still try to do things but the things you try to do are provoked by things out of your control :P
<kris_>
i guess personally my mentality is just "i don't really care"
<il>
You're talking a lot for someone who doesn't care
<kris_>
i mean i don't really care if free will does or doesn't exist
<kris_>
it's inconsequential and we still live regardless of it so it's kind of not worth a mental wrestling match over
<kris_>
but yes, people do have more agency than a lot would suggest
<il>
recommended reading on the tops: aldous huxley's brave new world, B.F. Skinner's Beyond Freedom and Dignity, Edward Bernay's Propaganda... Etc.
<il>
s/tops/topic
<kris_>
hah, my stepmother just got me a copy of brave new world actually
<kris_>
she figured i'd like it based on things i've said in the past and the fact that i'm a huge fan of "the giver"
<il>
kris_: who are you to say what's consequential?
<kris_>
noone at all
<il>
Yes, and you can't decide whether some belief has weight for other people or not
<kris_>
this is kind of a lack of conversational skill for me, i mean to speak on behalf of my own mental processes here
<il>
I understand, but you're expressing personal beliefs as external truths
<kris_>
right, hence lack of conversational skill so i apologize i guess
<il>
I'm not offended
<kris_>
that's something i need to work on, i feel like when people speak they inherently speak from their own point of view and it's kind of just implied
<il>
True
<kris_>
and the idea of that isn't something that needs to be realized in conversation, imo
<kris_>
anyway, with that in mind, personally from my point of view in my experience etc. i'm not a big fan of the doomer mentality