06:45 <sad_plan> kris_: if free will doesnt exist, why do we do the things we do? appart from surviving ofcourse

08:30 <kris_> sad_plan why do you like your favorite food more than others

08:30 <kris_> because brain chemistry says so

08:31 <kris_> i had my irc client closed for a while or i would have replied earlier sorry

09:47 <sad_plan> no worries. dopamine I suppose? we do crave our dopamine. else social media wouldnt work

09:48 <sad_plan> recieving dopamine makes us feel good. atleast for a while anyhow. dopamine wears off rather quickly iirc.

09:51 <sad_plan> however, in relation to that, maybe we like cinnamon buns. maybe you see it in your convinent store, but you choose not to buy it, despite your brain screaming for it. whats your thought on that? we make a concious choice, not to buy it, even though we want to

10:25 <il> sad_plan: you can read what I suggested.

10:25 <il> B.F. Skinner makes an argument against free will from radical behaviorist perspective.

10:26 <il> I.e. our actions are conditions by our environment, AND by our constitution and previous experience. We did not choose our constitution and previous experience, and we don't really choose our environment, so there's nothing that we do choose, really.

10:26 <il> s/conditions/conditioned

10:27 <il> And another insight from that book is that the fact that our thought processes and their causes might not be transparent or easily observable doesn't mean they aren't externally caused... Etc.

10:27 <il> It's a good book, I read it in highschool.

10:56 <WhyNotHugo> anyone using libudev-zero with wireplumber?

11:43 <sad_plan> il: interesting take for sure

11:43 <sad_plan> regarding past experiences, im a firm beliver that we are infact our past experiences. if you woke up tomorrow, without any prior knowledge of the world, no experiences, nothing. who are you really?

11:44 <sad_plan> this kinda leans in on what you mentioned

11:44 <sad_plan> in some way anyway

14:11 <riteo> WhyNotHugo: me

14:12 <WhyNotHugo> riteo: did you patch wireplumber? do non-bluetooth devices work for yuo?

14:12 <WhyNotHugo> Context is https://github.com/illiliti/libudev-zero/issues/26#issuecomment-2876016553

14:17 <riteo> WhyNotHugo: I don't recall patching it

14:19 <riteo> there's a libudev-zero patch there in my old forjed package but I did not add it myself iirc

14:21 <WhyNotHugo> willing to try the patch just to make sure :)

14:21 <riteo> aight

14:22 <riteo> one minute and I'll send it asap

14:26 <riteo> https://0x0.st/8yIL.patch

14:27 <riteo> WhyNotHugo: ^

14:28 <WhyNotHugo> yeah, that's the patch which i tried

14:28 <WhyNotHugo> wireplumber complains "notfication received without a device"

14:31 <riteo> what version of wireplumber are you using?

14:31 <riteo> This patch works fine on 0.5.6

14:33 <WhyNotHugo> 0.5.8

14:35 <riteo> lemme try upgrading

14:47 <riteo> WhyNotHugo: speakers are working

14:47 <riteo> perhaps you're using dbus too? That requires an extra tweak

18:42 <WhyNotHugo> riteo: i do have dbus running. what extra tweak?

18:43 <WhyNotHugo> (note that the same setup was working with eudev, so generally, dbus dependency ordering should be fine)

19:43 <phinxy> Can the runit supervice daemon be restarted? Because when I create a new service and symlink it in to /var/service there's some issue with the directories in /run/runit which are autogenerated, I have to restart the computer for the service to function.

19:47 <phinxy> Not sure what I've done wrong but now I managed to create a service without issues.

20:40 <sewn> that's weird

22:40 <WhyNotHugo> riteo: confirmed again with that pipewire patch. non-bluetooth devices don't show up

22:40 <WhyNotHugo> did you manually configure any devices maybe?