<kris_>
right now the plan is to have two different versions of musl, one for 32 bit systems and one for 64 bit
<sewn>
> Hopefully this doesn't break suckless x11 dwm, but LFG
<sewn>
holy shit fucking SHUT UP
<kris_>
what
<sewn>
scroll down
<kris_>
yeah i saw it just confused why the "shut up"
<sewn>
tell me how this is comment is anything useful
<kris_>
i think he was making a joke
<sewn>
this is not the first time he did it
<kris_>
and LFG just means "lets do it"
<sewn>
muh suckless...
<kris_>
or rather "lets fucking go"
<kris_>
lol void devs on average do not like suckless style software whatsoever
<sewn>
guh
<kris_>
regardless im pretty excited
<kris_>
it removes the need for me to keep hosting my xbps repo, i have my own build of latest musl that ive been serving to like 14 different installs for the past while
<sewn>
yippee
<sewn>
i should try void again sometime
<sewn>
but i still dont like the way they do maintainership
<sewn>
if only they would yknow, have a very low PR count
<kris_>
void just doesn't like new packages
<kris_>
because eventually people flake and maintaining them falls on the core maintainers
<sewn>
some prs arent even new packages
<kris_>
yeah some are super slow because part of voids mentality is "move slow don't break things"
<kris_>
also i fucked up that PR horribly because i had two different terminals open with two different copies of void-packages apparently because my home dirs are a complete mess
<kris_>
i think you're just not down with the culture of what void is
<kris_>
void is loosely directed anarchy, people do shit when they feel like it and if they don't feel like it then they just don't
<sewn>
the culture in question: "void likes to bikeshed and take 9000 hours of time"
<sewn>
kris_: then it shouldnt be marketed as such
<sewn>
chimera gets away with it because the maintainers are very clear about how things are run
<sewn>
while in void, on first sight, you assume its a production ready, constantly maintained distro with developers that have time
<sewn>
becuase it supports so many fucking packages and architectures
<kris_>
i mean, it *is* constantly maintained
<sewn>
and then you see that "oh you acutally have to figure out that maintainers arent actually like that"
<sewn>
its stupid
<kris_>
but that's just it, isn't it? there's a fucking shit ton of packages that maintainers have vanished and dumped onto the core team
<kris_>
there are SO MANY PRs merged on a daily basis
<kris_>
eventually i may stop being lazy and build my own distro
<sewn>
only one pr was merged today
<kris_>
im not going to bother trying out chimera because i'm just not a fan of it
<sewn>
and the said pr is from LAST YEAR
<sewn>
after it was marked as stale TWICE
* sewn
facepalms
<kris_>
im seeing quite a few things merged
<sewn>
well you said daily
<sewn>
and today is may 24 for me
<sewn>
unless you mean may 23
<kris_>
daily == 24h
<sewn>
so yeah
<sewn>
well then
<kris_>
theres a bunch of merged PRs from the past 24
<sewn>
if thats the case
<kris_>
and yeah its may 24 for me
<sewn>
9 prs were merged in the last 24 hours
<sewn>
oldest is from last year august
<kris_>
look i dont like it either but i also dont think it's that dramatic
<sewn>
newest is from 16 hours ago
<sewn>
because a maintainer di it
<kris_>
i daily drove debian stable until i found void
<sewn>
and obviously a maintainer merged their own pr
<sewn>
in seconds
<kris_>
look, i don't like it when things update
<sewn>
i understand
<kris_>
i do sometimes but not everything needs to be updated
<kris_>
void is my happy medium
<sewn>
im just talking about the activity of void-packages contributions
<kris_>
a lot of it is behind the scenes because if a PR comes from someone who isnt a maintainer someone has to go out of their way to actually test it thoroughly
<kris_>
and the repo is **fucking huge**
<kris_>
like i don't expect my blocky package to be merged for a really long time because of just what it is
<sewn>
and the maintainer count is **fucking miniscule**
<sewn>
kiss is the only right design
<kris_>
correct
<sewn>
it should be small and simple enough to be maintained by one person
<kris_>
but kiss drove me up a fucking wall
<sewn>
how come :3c
<kris_>
i'm not one of the "disable literally everything and reenable specific things later" types when it comes to packages so i got really pissed off going down dependency trees reenabling things
<sewn>
forking packages is very common
<sewn>
because kiss is that stpuid
<kris_>
yeah i'd be forking the entire repo
<kris_>
if i were to daily kiss
<sewn>
mhm
<kris_>
and getting elogind to actually work drove me nuts
<kris_>
yeah yeah i know you think i don't need it but it makes my life easier
<sewn>
no i think you would need it
<sewn>
i mean
<sewn>
im one to talk
<kris_>
seatd + turnstile would be fine if seatd worked properly with polkit
<sewn>
still makes no sense to me
<kris_>
but i don't really care about the user services part of turnstile, like not even a little bit
<kris_>
just the tracking
<sewn>
you dont need polkit for that
<sewn>
are you so sure
<kris_>
i need polkit for things like my file manager to prompt me for a passphrase and permission to decrypt other drives and mount them
<kris_>
i could just do it from the terminal but no
<sewn>
ahhh
<kris_>
and i spoke to q66 the other day about this and she said she's probably going to remove seatd at some point anyway from chimera
<sewn>
what the
<sewn>
why??
<kris_>
because a lot of things are broken
<kris_>
like what im describing is the why
<sewn>
but
<sewn>
when
<sewn>
where
<kris_>
abby had mentioned making some sort of shim to make things like this work though
<sewn>
what
<sewn>
wher
<kris_>
abby being one of the turnstile devs who is also a void core dev
<kris_>
i asked about it in chimera-linux the other day
<kris_>
when i was testing seatd+turnstile instead of elogind
<kris_>
anyway eventually im probably going to just finish my build system and do my own thing
<kris_>
because i absolutely refuse to give up runit
<kris_>
and honestly id rather gnu coreutils or uutils to some other impl
<sewn>
wydm the other day
<sewn>
i wanna know when so i can search and see
<sewn>
becuase i want to hear about the dropping seatd
<kris_>
i don't have irc history so you can just search for my username in chimera
<kris_>
probably 2 days ago
<sewn>
got it
<sewn>
2025-05-22.log:[23:10:44]
<sewn>
oh wow
<sewn>
you did not ask them further
<kris_>
i did not
<sewn>
so its just
<sewn>
oh youre dropping seatd and
<sewn>
thats it??
<kris_>
i dont use chimera so it's hard for me to care
<sewn>
hmm fair enough
<sewn>
but it would be nice to know since you use seatd too
<kris_>
i don't, i just moved back to elogind
<sewn>
ew.
<sewn>
why
<kris_>
it's a more cut and dry "just spin it up" type of solution
<kris_>
not that i dont want to configure stuff, i just want my polkit prompts to work properly
<kris_>
and that answer indicated to me that there's not a real way to make that happen
<kris_>
i had also asked abby about it and she more or less told me there's not really a way to make that happen atm
<kris_>
sewn if you want to know more about that you could probably just ask her
<sewn>
hmph
<kris_>
q66 doesnt seem to bite
<sewn>
they are a recovering meanie after all
<kris_>
i never interacted with her during her meanie phase
<sewn>
ive had my fair share..
<kris_>
i get it though, not being a meanie is a conscious constant effort for me
* kris_
used to be pretty toxic
<sewn>
what?!
<sewn>
news to me..
<kris_>
wonder if openssl would be more appropriate for calculating iterations
<kris_>
i wish i didnt have to deal with this, i legit do not give a shit about zfs even a little bit
<kris_>
sewn does chimera use openssl
<kris_>
purely out of curiosity
<sewn>
of course
<kris_>
ah okay
<sewn>
people have lives here
<kris_>
i half guessed they would have patched in libressl while they were at it
<sewn>
libressl would be so much effort for no gains
<kris_>
yeah void used to default to libressl and dropped it a few years ago
<kris_>
there are all of these weird software considerations ive been thinking about since i'm still planning out a build system in my head
<kris_>
another random thing ive been thinking about is netbsd curses
<sad_plan>
I find it a bit ironic that void doesnt like suckless stuff, because when people ask about a suckless distro, void is often mentioned lol
<kris_>
a lot of people seem to misunderstand what void is because it uses runit and has a musl option
<sad_plan>
also, re: libressl. after python decided to not support it after 3.11.x, every distro basically just noped on libressl
<kris_>
it's not even really in the "minimal" category of distros
<sad_plan>
perhaps
<kris_>
more minimal than something like arch but it's a low bar
<sad_plan>
arch isnt even that minimal really, it enabled just about everything
<kris_>
yeah its insane to me that people think arch is at all minimal
<kris_>
"omg it doesnt have a DE by default, this is so lean"
<sad_plan>
its *minimal* because it comes with less stuff, so it means you can technically end up with less packages if things werent preinstalled
<sad_plan>
exacly
<kris_>
idk void *can* be fairly minimal if you want it to be, its just not by default
<sad_plan>
on a *minimal* arch system, youd still have 500 ish packages
<kris_>
dracut for the initramfs, gnu coreutils, etc
<sad_plan>
right
<kris_>
and when packages are compiled usually everything is enabled
<sad_plan>
yep. I find gentoo to be kinda the same thing aswell, yeah you can disable some stuff, but I dont really think it matters that much in the end
<sad_plan>
they also dont try to be a minimal
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<sewn>
gotta use void for a glibc chroot :(
<kris_>
idk im not particularly a fan of gentoo anyway
<kris_>
the build system is way too complex
<kris_>
and honestly the entire thing felt way too integrated and automated to me
<kris_>
i ran through an install a few months ago and binned it once i was done
<sewn>
what the fuck android studio is packaged on void?????????
<sewn>
aww you need to build it i think
<sewn>
"ERROR: xbps-src cannot be used as root."
<sewn>
stupid limitation
<sad_plan>
exacly. portage is humoungus.
<sewn>
aaand i cant run xbps-src in a chroot
<kris_>
there's a little bit of weirdness due to its usage of namespaces to build in isolation
<sewn>
xbps-uchroot and xbps-uunshare doesnt work
<sewn>
this is pretty frustrating
<sewn>
aports works perfectly fine
<kris_>
so use that
<sewn>
i need to use a glibc distro
<sewn>
because Android
<kris_>
and aports doesn't sandbox builds like xbps-src does
<sewn>
im aware
<sewn>
xbps-src used to support the building methods similar to aports
<sewn>
aka unsandboxed
<sewn>
and they dropped it
<kris_>
just use debian
<sewn>
fuck no
<kris_>
ok so just use slackware
<sewn>
even worse
<kris_>
there's a bunch of glibc distros out there if you're annoyed by voids build system
<sewn>
oh i could use arch :D
<kris_>
that you could
<sewn>
meh i already setup void
<sewn>
let me try
<sewn>
to go continue
<sewn>
also xbps likes to hang for no reason whatsoever
<kris_>
yeah that's been happening for me recently im not sure what's up with that
<kris_>
i think it's a mirror moment
<sewn>
pfft
<kris_>
idk i havent had it happen with the t1 chicago mirror
<kris_>
but i use repo-de
<sewn>
it keeps fucking hanging bruh
<sewn>
actually
<sewn>
honestlllyy
<sewn>
i did want to reinstall my distro today
<sewn>
hmmmmmmmmm...........
<sewn>
hmmm............
<sad_plan>
sewn: wym need glibc because of androidr? as in android-tools?
<sewn>
android SDK
<sad_plan>
ah
<sad_plan>
just use a chroot mate
<sewn>
i am
<sad_plan>
or a wm
<sewn>
hello i have cpu cores
<sad_plan>
right
<sad_plan>
good for you
<sad_plan>
I also have multiple cores
<sewn>
but tbh i have not used a glibc distro in a looooooooong time
<sewn>
atlesat 4 years
<kris_>
i have a fair amount of glibc installs still around
<sad_plan>
appart from nvidia drivers not supporting musl, I would used musl all the way aswell on my desktop
<kris_>
i use musl where i can but sometimes i run into weird bugs with software and just bounce back to glibc
<kris_>
might be solved shortly given void is finally updating musl
<sewn>
yip
<sad_plan>
it wouldve been solved aswell, if you did not use bad software which doesnt properly work with musl
* kris_
doesn't think qemu falls into the category of bad software
<sad_plan>
probably not
<sad_plan>
never used qemu, but ive been thinking about trying it.
<kris_>
like idk theres just issues with void musl sometimes at the moment because they'll rebuild something and then find out musl needs like a 30th patch
<sad_plan>
just havent figured out what I wanna virtualize yet
<kris_>
the other day lxc got rebuilt and it downed literally all of my containers
<kris_>
because musl needed a patch to update syscalls
<sad_plan>
great
<sad_plan>
I kinda wanted to virtualize 9front, but their qcow file doesnt include a gui :c
<kris_>
ive never tried 9front
<kris_>
whats special about it
<sad_plan>
its immensly simple. you can build the *entire* system in meere minutes for one. it has very few syscalls. I dont have the whole list of things, but afaik, its just easier to work with from a developer standpoint. say you have some odd iot thing, it would require less to connect to it than on linux
<sad_plan>
adventuresin9 has a better explenation on this really in his video on why his using 9
<sad_plan>
yes, its the first one for sure. but he probably has some valid points in the other one aswell
<sad_plan>
in any case, he mentions he was going to interface with some device, and on 9, it was as trivial as ever, but on linux, in comparisson, it was just absurd how much extra stuff he need. this is just one example though
<sad_plan>
I do struggle with other things on 9, because it lacks basic stuff like video player/music player, or a proper browser even
<sad_plan>
mind you, its not a general purpose OS though..
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<kris_>
i guess if i can ever think of an application for something like that i'll give it a try
<sad_plan>
yeah, I dont currently have one either. appart from the obvious that I wanna use a more minimal system
<kris_>
wonder when the last time wsa that someone did a kiss install built with clang instead of gcc
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<sad_plan>
dilyn used llvm, but his on ubuntu now, due to working at canonical. ive used llvm in the past, and honestly, im considering it again. although im not impressed by the fact that it requires cmake aswell....
<sad_plan>
there was this whole thing called wyverkiss aswell, which tried to avoid gnu tools altogether