<midfavila>
tl;dr cars inherently require winners and losers in order to be effective and when everyone has a car everyone loses as such
<midfavila>
and this status quo is upheld because cabbidalism
<midfavila>
the bicycle, public transit, etc, are like, pretty much inherently unprofitable
<midfavila>
(although they're trying, with newer bicycles)
<midfavila>
hence under a capitalist system where companies and their profits are prioritised, unprofitable modes of transport are prohibited as much as possible
<midfavila>
see:
<midfavila>
>underfunded pubtrans
<midfavila>
>lack of safe bicycle infra
<midfavila>
>inaccesible sidewalks
<midfavila>
>everything spread a million miles apart
<midfavila>
>sidewalks sometimes not existing at all
<midfavila>
>anywhere cars exist they almost always get a disproportionate share of the road
<kris_>
mfw i walk on the side
<kris_>
(of the road)
<kris_>
if someone hits me i get to sue
<kris_>
ezpz
<midfavila>
american behaviour
<midfavila>
a friend of mine from kentucky said his hometown has literally one sidewalk
<midfavila>
lol
<midfavila>
but seriously
<midfavila>
it's fucked
<kris_>
oh dude kentucky is so fucking primitive its insane
<kris_>
they have not shit
<midfavila>
like
<midfavila>
everyone always bitches about the city being dirty and loud and cramped and shit
<midfavila>
MAYBE
<midfavila>
JUST MAYBE
<midfavila>
IF YOU DIDN'T DEVOTE A THIRD OR MORE OF SPACE IN URBAN AREAS TO LAND YACHTS
<midfavila>
IT WOULDN'T BE A LIVING NIGHTMARE TO EXIST OUTSIDE OF ONE
<midfavila>
>think_mark.jpeg
<kris_>
what if i actively want to live super far from the city
<midfavila>
then you can pay the full cost required to service that area
<midfavila>
(you can't)
<kris_>
lame
<midfavila>
such is life
<kris_>
cities should be designed better yes but if i dont want to live in one i feel like that's my thing
* kris_
does not like being told where i can and can't live even though i kinda am anyway because have to have road
<midfavila>
the existence of strict urban-rural areas is just another arbitrary hierarchy anyway
<kris_>
you can't just iron out individuality like that
<midfavila>
i think marx addresses that in his work about the concept of metabolic rift
<kris_>
some people like me just do not like living in populated areas
<midfavila>
bruv
<midfavila>
listen to me
<midfavila>
cities are only the way the are, i.e. hyper-dense areas, because that's what the economy demands
<midfavila>
similarly,
<midfavila>
rural regions are in the middle of fucking nowhere because that's what's necessary for things like resource extraction and agribusiness
<midfavila>
if the load was distributed equitably,
<kris_>
i understand that, but what i'm asking for here is proper full isolation, like put me 50 miles away from literally any other people
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<midfavila>
yes, well, you can go be a rugged individualist still, if you want
<midfavila>
but then don't complain if you can't access the benefits of society
<kris_>
i agree with that completely
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<midfavila>
you also shouldnt expect society to reorient itself to support your lifestyle because of its inherent inefficiency
<midfavila>
e.g. no gasoline subsidies
<midfavila>
which america spends a shitload on
<midfavila>
like, two dollars a gallon is not a normal price set by the market
<midfavila>
or w/e it is in america
<kris_>
idk really varies by location
<midfavila>
also re: don't tell me what to do, that's like, life, man
<midfavila>
civilisation is a group effort
<kris_>
i *have* been called an uncle ted type.
<midfavila>
hyperindividualism is the reason it's falling apart in parts of the west
* midfavila
coughs loudly
<midfavila>
ameica
<midfavila>
america*
<kris_>
and trust me, i fully agree with you, i had misinterpreted a previous statement you made
<midfavila>
i mean to be fair ted had points
<kris_>
he had a fuck ton of them
<midfavila>
the enclosure of the benefits of automation and machinery by capital is one of the greatest tragedies of our history
<midfavila>
there's another short book about this i need to read soon
<midfavila>
tools for conviviality by ivan illich
<midfavila>
part of the reason i fuckin despise cars is because they're isolating and alienating
<midfavila>
you put money in and you go and you don't have to DO anything
<midfavila>
you don't have to be a fucking human
<midfavila>
like maybe the reason everyone is so lonely in Da West:tm: is because we spend thousands of hours a year in our cars sneething
<kris_>
an important thing you need to know about me is that i fundamentally dislike humans
<kris_>
in general
<midfavila>
have you ever left america tho
<kris_>
there are a handful of people i like and want to talk to but it's *incredibly* rare
<kris_>
no i have not, i base this entirely on my own experience
<midfavila>
bc like
<midfavila>
america is weird
<midfavila>
it's a liminal space
<midfavila>
you should visit canada
<kris_>
well, i'm incredibly american, we don't like eachother
<kris_>
at all
<kris_>
i've had a better time talking to europeans than i have americans though so it might just be here that i can't stand people
<midfavila>
ye prolly bc the american system grinds people into paste and then shits on them
<midfavila>
so everyone is always whiteknuckling through life
<midfavila>
instead of just ~vibing~
<midfavila>
people in saskatchewan are like that, at least by my standards
<kris_>
but it's rare that i have an interaction with your typical normal american, specifically people OUR age, where i'm not thinking to myself "wow, i really wish you'd shut the fuck up and walk away from me"
<kris_>
well and boomers
<kris_>
gen X or whatever people are usually fine
<midfavila>
>boom*rs
<midfavila>
idk i'm at a point where i just can't cope with most people, at least in SK
<midfavila>
quebecois and maritimers are chill
<kris_>
i don't think individuality is something we really have in the US anyway
<kris_>
at most it's an illusion
<midfavila>
no, it's not
<midfavila>
yes, it is
<kris_>
you go out in public or into a job type context and everyone has to mask incredibly hard and water themselves down because otherwise they're gonna lose their job or w/e
<midfavila>
america's entire culture is about flattening people into mere units of labour
<midfavila>
yeah
<kris_>
or be cast out of their social group
<kris_>
or otherwise
<kris_>
everything is so horrifically artificial
<midfavila>
it's all about being a maximally productive wagie
<midfavila>
it's creeping into canada more and more and i can't stand it
<midfavila>
SPEAKING OF,
<midfavila>
there's ANOTHER book that talks about this
<midfavila>
even if it has some shitty takes because it's written by a neoliberal
<kris_>
and anarchy cant exist because of human nature etc
<midfavila>
but basically it discusses the contradiction of modern western liberal capitalism and traditional modes of living throughout the word
<midfavila>
world
<kris_>
you're always going to end up with groups of people that have their own cultural rules and expectations because that's just how shit works
<midfavila>
kris_: i will actually bully you if you go "muh hooman nature" on me
<midfavila>
i swear to god
<midfavila>
>:C
<kris_>
what if i like being bullied
<kris_>
:3
<midfavila>
doesn't matter
<midfavila>
going to cross the border on my bicycle and find you and suplex you into the sun
<midfavila>
stg
<midfavila>
human "nature" doesn't fucking exist
<midfavila>
and it hasn't for thousands of years
<midfavila>
the way people act is informed by the culture within which they are raised
<midfavila>
full stop
<kris_>
the problem here is that sure you can wipe the slate clean and boil things down to just fundamental human
<kris_>
the moment you have a group of people they're going to eventually develop some form of entropy
<midfavila>
if you exist within a culture that's hypercompetitive, hyperindividualist, consumerist, etc,
<midfavila>
of course you're going to be all of those things
<midfavila>
honestly i think the only thing that might be universal is like
<midfavila>
being lazy
<midfavila>
and wanting to avoid pain
<kris_>
fundamentally human nature isnt a thing but people are going to develop the behavior i'm trying to talk about
<midfavila>
which is really just generalised laziness
<kris_>
and how do you prevent that
<kris_>
yk
<midfavila>
how do you prevent that? by destroying the systems that promote and enable it
<midfavila>
easier said than done of course
<midfavila>
but like, if you ensure everyone is guaranteed a minimum standard of living that's dignified, safe, secure, etc, like, people aren't going to fight over a loaf of bread
<midfavila>
that's stupid
<kris_>
so what if someones mom doesnt like XYZ
<kris_>
the kid then doesnt like XYZ
<midfavila>
if there's scarcity, people will compete for resources
<kris_>
their kids then don't like XYZ
<kris_>
you see what im saying
<midfavila>
yes
<midfavila>
i do
<midfavila>
that's why public education exists
* midfavila
snffs
<midfavila>
frankly why it exists under capitalism too
<midfavila>
literally just a way to convince people to pay for their own indoctrination
<midfavila>
cops are the same shit
<midfavila>
convincing the inmates to pay the guards
<kris_>
cops will always be fundamentally terrible people to me
<midfavila>
they're class traitors
<midfavila>
full stop
<midfavila>
they willingly enlist themselves into the service of capital
<midfavila>
and only exist to enforce its rule
<midfavila>
the only good cops are people who left willingly and fictional cops
<midfavila>
and the k9s
<midfavila>
i saw a video a while back of an american cop beating a citizen so hard the k9 turned on its handler
<midfavila>
Freedom:tm:
<midfavila>
Liberty:r:
<midfavila>
anyway brb
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<sewn>
sadplan: where did the underscore go
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<sadplan>
oh, it seems i got reconnected
sadplan is now known as sad_plan
<sad_plan>
hm, wierd. it seems to only have happened to libera