<midfavila>
interesting alternatives to expect that are designed to work with standard unix shells instead of tcl
<midfavila>
i might fiddle with these...
<kris_>
mid you don't use openssl right
<midfavila>
i do at this exact minute
<midfavila>
debian uses openssl
<midfavila>
afaik
<midfavila>
i doubt they use libre
<kris_>
i mean yeah pretty much nothing uses libressl
<midfavila>
for some reason
<kris_>
im just wondering how hard it would be to switch out openssl for libressl
<midfavila>
not at all
<midfavila>
kiss used to use libressl as its default
<midfavila>
i still don't know why we switched
<kris_>
apparently it was enough of a maintenance burden that void switched to openssl
<kris_>
in like 2021
<midfavila>
all of my stuff builds cleanly regardless of whether i use open or libre
<midfavila>
sounds like a skill issue tbqh
* midfavila
sniffs
<kris_>
there are probably a handful of things out there that end up needing to be patched
<kris_>
i cant think of any distros that default to libre now
<kris_>
i think its basically only openbsd
<midfavila>
mine is going to be extra contrarian and default to bear >:O
<kris_>
ehh
<midfavila>
>it's dead!!!
<kris_>
i just feel like libressl should be good enough
<kris_>
bearssl kinda *is* dead
<kris_>
iirc
<midfavila>
it's literally not, lol
<midfavila>
there was a conversation in here like
<midfavila>
yesterday or the day before about exactly this
<kris_>
someone must have lied to me ive never actually looked
<kris_>
:p
<midfavila>
sad_plan: was it you i was talking to about bearssl
<midfavila>
and software lifecycles and shit
<kris_>
anyway i may try out libressl im just scared of making changes like that
<midfavila>
just download an old release of kiss
<kris_>
but i guess if anything is broken as a result of it i should notice it
<midfavila>
i know ur terrified of kiss but still
* midfavila
patpats
<kris_>
>terrified of kiss
<kris_>
no
<kris_>
just lazy
<midfavila>
cope
<midfavila>
:3c
<midfavila>
prove it nerd
<midfavila>
i'm pressuring you as a peer
<midfavila>
that means you gotta do it
* kris_
is waiting for mid to find out that peer pressure generally makes me do the opposite
<midfavila>
if you want to forever stare into the void wondering what could have been, that's on you :P
<kris_>
i already know what will be
<kris_>
and i already know what will be as a result of making my own thing
<kris_>
a huge maintenance burden
<midfavila>
it's really not
<midfavila>
= w=
<midfavila>
like
<midfavila>
if you consider running 'kiss b foo'
<kris_>
i understand what point you've been trying to make i just don't agree with it
<kris_>
it's not just "set and forget"
<midfavila>
you've never used kiss lol
<kris_>
packages change and you have to change how they're built and otherwise as a result of it
<midfavila>
you don't have the qualifications to disagree
<midfavila>
tbqh
<midfavila>
you don't though
<midfavila>
that's the thing
<kris_>
for a lot of things probably not
<midfavila>
most of the time it's literally just a standard configure
<midfavila>
like probably 90-95%
<midfavila>
you write it once and it just werks
<kris_>
also
<kris_>
using blake3 is interesting
<midfavila>
yeah idk what's up with that
<kris_>
i dont really have an opinion on it
<midfavila>
i haven't used upstream in years
<kris_>
it's just interesting
<midfavila>
i stopped doing upstream stuff when x11 was dropped
<kris_>
i would just think sha256 is enough
<kris_>
and not too slow
<kris_>
blake3 is a LOT faster than sha256 but eh
* midfavila
bigshrugs
<midfavila>
iirc it used to be sha256
* kris_
using sha512 on his distro just to be contrarian
* kris_
also doesn't care if it's too slow for ur wittle cpu
<midfavila>
just going to patch it out tbqh
<kris_>
debian: >is debian
<kris_>
void: >probably unstable
<kris_>
AAAAAAA
<kris_>
analysis paralysis sucks
<midfavila>
>kiss: just werks:tm:, gets you lots of really cool frens
<midfavila>
:^)
<kris_>
would you still talk to me if i was a fedora user..
<kris_>
nah that's too fucked up to joke about nvm
<midfavila>
yes, but it would mostly involve me relentlessly dunking on you
<kris_>
well in that case
<kris_>
tbh i wonder how irc channel ownership even works
<kris_>
i can join a channel that doesnt exist and then i own it
<kris_>
what happens if there are also other users but then i disconnect
<midfavila>
yeah when you join a chanel that's empty you create it
<midfavila>
and become chanop
<midfavila>
when there's other people they remain
<midfavila>
there's just no chanop
<midfavila>
usually persistent channels have a bot that manages logistics and persistence and shit afaik
<kris_>
>void bad
<kris_>
>me: sitting here listening to Alice In Chains - Them Bones perfectly fine
<kris_>
i need to find more grunge music i bet theres a lot of smaller bands that are also good
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<kiedtl>
Nah chanserv holds channel op/owner info
<kiedtl>
You remember we had to contact the freenode staff back when dylan disappeared, and ask for ownership of the channel
<kiedtl>
iirc if a channel isn't registered, someone joins, others join, the first user leaves, then whoever joined next becomes the chanop
<kiedtl>
but I *think* whoever gets the "/msg ChanServ REGISTER #channel" message in first will have ownership, regardless of current chanops(?)
<vulpine>
registering with chanserv requires already being a chanop
<riteo>
brb
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<kiedtl>
ah
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<midfavila>
kiedtl: honestly it feels like that was a million years ago
<kiedtl>
fair
<midfavila>
and when we needed him the most...
<midfavila>
...he vanished.
<midfavila>
now, a thousand years later, we think we've found the *next* dylan
<midfavila>
cue avatar theme
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<midfavila>
i feel like redhat would be the fire nation
<kris_>
i believe in the second coming of dylan
<kris_>
i was never here for the first coming of dylan though
<plasm0duck>
heh
<plasm0duck>
What nation would Alpine be? Air?
<kris_>
maybe the fire nation can have multiple members
<kris_>
the fire federation
<plasm0duck>
kris_, 'The united federation of fire'.
<kris_>
yes
<kris_>
they sell fire and fire accessories
<plasm0duck>
&& they are master crafters of firewalls.
<kiedtl>
redhat & debian are earth I would say. Large complacent behemoths
<kiedtl>
google is fire nation (android, fuschia, other linux forks/derivatives)
<kiedtl>
air is bsd -- almost extinct :)
<midfavila>
and water is what, all the niche distros
<midfavila>
the source alliance
<plasm0duck>
BSD will never be extinct.
<midfavila>
>gentoo
<midfavila>
>kiss
<midfavila>
>source mage
<midfavila>
>crux
<plasm0duck>
Especially FreeBSD and OpenBSD.
<midfavila>
what about net? qwq
<plasm0duck>
Commercial Unix is going extinct though.
<midfavila>
oh for sure
<midfavila>
i've seen like
<midfavila>
one job for HPUX
<midfavila>
a few for AIX
<midfavila>
and a handful for solaris
<midfavila>
never any for SCO or etc
<plasm0duck>
FreeBSD is way too big, especially in the server space with companies like Netflix ect.
<plasm0duck>
Also OpenBSD for security applications.
<kiedtl>
maybe air is crux, since it spawned kiss linux (kinda)
<plasm0duck>
FreeBSD is in pfsense/opnsense and pf comes from OpenBSD.
<kiedtl>
actually where is openbsd used in real life
<midfavila>
kiedtl: how does crux have anything to do with kiss?
<midfavila>
legit question
<kiedtl>
I know freebsd is great with ISPs/verizon
<kiedtl>
midfavila, iirc crux along with void/alpine was a major inspiration
<plasm0duck>
OpenBSD is used on a lot of servers, especially security concious people.
<kiedtl>
i could be wrong
<kiedtl>
plasm0duck, outside of hobbyist market though?
<midfavila>
kiedtl: it's found on your mom's computer
<midfavila>
:^)
<kiedtl>
openbsd?
<plasm0duck>
OpenBSD is a great OS, it is very fast, light and excellent documentation.
<plasm0duck>
OpenBSD is used in a lot of military servers.
<plasm0duck>
I know US DOD uses it A LOT and also I remember watching some documentary about Ukraine cyber defence stopping Russian hackers and they were running OpenBSD.
<kiedtl>
huh
<plasm0duck>
OpenBSD gave us ssh, ssl etc
<plasm0duck>
OpenBSD is like the ultimate 'suckless' OS.
<plasm0duck>
I highly recommend you to try it out.
<kris_>
idk, openbsd packages a *lot* of software by default
<midfavila>
openbsd isn't "suckless"
<kris_>
and disabling sets is easy to fuck up when upgrades will attempt to put them back on the system
<midfavila>
it's unix
<kris_>
packages/packs
<midfavila>
unix is sucky by default if you ask them
<kris_>
i love how i want to get something done and accidentally end up watching nilered for like 2 hours straight
<midfavila>
you need your stoomulus
<plasm0duck>
what do you guys think about Plan9/9Front?
<midfavila>
plan 9 is super cool, i've used it a bit
<midfavila>
not enough to properly grasp its functionality but i appreciate it a lot
<midfavila>
theoretically my laptop supports 9front natively
<midfavila>
so i could boot it off an SD card
<plasm0duck>
midfavila, what laptop do you have?
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<midfavila>
plasm0duck: mnt reform with the imx8mq som
<midfavila>
and an ath9k wireless card
<midfavila>
is my baby uwu
<plasm0duck>
Nice, I have a Thinkpad X1 Carbon gen 4.
* midfavila
nod-nods
<midfavila>
i used to like thinkpads, then i switched to toughbooks for a while
<midfavila>
i had an ibm a31p in high school
<midfavila>
god that thing was amazing
<midfavila>
14", 1600x1200 screen, seven-row keyboard plus like five or six macro buttons on the side, full set of audio *and* video I/O (S-Video in, too, which was wonky)
<plasm0duck>
and a ThinkCentre M910q workstation.
<midfavila>
2gb of memory, p4@2ghz, and i had a pair of CF cards instead of a hard disk
<midfavila>
(i promise i'm not OLD, this was like 2016-2020-ish)
<midfavila>
put slackware on it and it was golden
<plasm0duck>
Oh and a PinePhone running Alpine Linux. That's all the hardware I currently have. I used to have a bunch of Raspberry Pi 3B's. But I sold them. I need to get some more hardware.
* midfavila
nod-nods
<midfavila>
get a uconsole!!!!!!!!
<kris_>
i have way too much hardware
<midfavila>
i may or may not be something of a uconsole stan even if mine is currently completely useless
<plasm0duck>
I used to have an old ThinkCentre running pfsense as my modem/router/firewall. I was nice. I could block whole country IP ranges from accessing my network and restrict my wifes Tik Tok/Instagram/Facebook bandwidth.
<kris_>
currently i have a dell optiplex 3040 micro as one of my VM hosts, i5 6500t, 8gb of ram, 256gb ssd
<kris_>
my router is an hp t740 thin client with an x540-t2 10 gig nic, thing's a 4c8t first gen ryzen embedded cpu with 8gb of ram and some small 64gb ssd
<midfavila>
>restrict my wife's bandwidth
* midfavila
raises an eyebrow?
<kris_>
desktop - core ultra 7 265k, 48gb of 7000mt memory, 6700xt gpu, 1tb and 2tb 970 evo plus' SSDs
<kris_>
actual server - ryzen 5 3600, 32gb of some 2666mt ECC memory, two 8tb hdds and a 500gb 860 evo plus boot drive
<kris_>
(also just hosts VMs)
<kris_>
and a pi 3b+ running alpine that hosts my local xbps repo
<kris_>
router runs openwrt, everything else is on void
<kris_>
i have a spare 10700k + 32gb of ram + motherboard in the closet that i haven't decided what to do with yet and my old laptop that has an i7 9750h and a gtx 1650 with 16gb of ram of some sort, that laptop doesn't have an OS on it atm
<kris_>
OH and my thinkpad t480 which is the laptop i actually use
<kris_>
midfavila it seems like an ipod classic might be kind of a chore since there's not an actual way to restore the OS without itunes
<kris_>
what a shame, i should only need it once though when putting the OS on the new storage because i intend on flash modding it
<midfavila>
get that libre hardware replacement
<midfavila>
the tangara or w/e
<kris_>
i think it's still preorder status
<kris_>
yeah preorder status
* kris_
is wondering how hard it would be to just get a pi zero and build one
* midfavila
shrugs
<sad_plan>
midfavila: correct, we mentioned bearssl, and software being *dead* a day ago iirc.
<midfavila>
tell kris_ to stop being an UPDOOTER
<sad_plan>
kris_: stahp being an updooter, nao, pls
<kris_>
i am not an updooter
<midfavila>
100% an updooter
<midfavila>
:3c
<kris_>
i like how my friends bully me for having software that's outdated
<kris_>
and then i come here and friends poke at me for having software that's new
<kris_>
:p
<midfavila>
i'm going to bully you regardless for what it's worth
<midfavila>
:3
<kris_>
i'm going to strike back by installing debian
<kris_>
i discovered another what i consider to be an issue with debians packaging earlier today
<midfavila>
that's not the own you think it is
<kris_>
if you disable recommends, curl will not pull in ca-certificates
<kris_>
which means it literally just won't have https
<kris_>
shit like that should be a hard dep imo
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<plasm0duck>
o/
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<sad_plan>
o/
<sad_plan>
kris_: I get why they dont. because curl does not need it. however, its kinda counter-intiuitive to not include it. users unaware of this would otherwise be frustratrated over the fact that they get no https
<sad_plan>
also regarding being an uptooter, you cannot win. its like with women, it does not matter wether youre right or wrong, youre wrong either way :p lol
<sad_plan>
also also, we have a soda vending machine at work. guess what? it runs linux :3 if you reset it, theres 2 pinguins appearing when booting :p
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<sewn>
oh my god
<sewn>
sad_plan saying :3
<sewn>
oh my fucking bingle
<sewn>
what?! :3
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<sad_plan>
it felt appropriate today C:
<il>
very nice
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<kris_>
sad_plan yeah i'm just one of those people that when i install a package i kind of expect it to work as intended and that's a case where it definitely does not
<kris_>
if you disable recommends
<kris_>
also i'm definitely not an updooter, part of what has drawn me to void for so long is that they don't bleeding edge roll things
<sad_plan>
I get that. and I kinda agree with you. if you install some program, theres some expectations that comes with it. its installing mpv, but ffmpeg is just left out. or installing a wm, but wayland or X is left out
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