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<Vova>
Hi
<Vova>
What do you think about adding a feature that automatically remove "make" dependencies after building a package ?
<riteo>
Vova: that sounds dangerous and finnicky
<riteo>
like, meson is usually a make dependency
<riteo>
should it get uninstalled?
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<riteo>
I'd argue that most make dependencies are useful and oftentimes essential
<riteo>
probably the best approach would be to do the build container thing and only install them there
<riteo>
so that when the container/chroot/prefix is discarded of it automatically gets rid of them
<sewn>
Vova: kiss hook it
<sewn>
but also don't
<Vova>
riteo: I don't know about the chroot thing, do you have an example in mind ? I could create a kiss chroot just for building package and then retrieve the .tar.gz packages but it seems overkill
<Vova>
My end goal would have been to have only statically linked packages
<riteo>
well a commonly desired/planned feature is to move building to a custom environment of some sort
<riteo>
that should make packages more consistent (no build-time autodetect crap) and allow clean make depends without blasting `make` into space
<Vova>
I see
<Vova>
Btw what's the plan about the kiss package manager, keep it in posix shell or port it to C ?
<riteo>
I'm personally interested too and it's one of the main reasons I've been brainstorming into a txt file for a few years but I really can't find the energy/time to work on it
<Vova>
Also is there any RFC or things like that
<riteo>
Vova: I have no idea but I personally think that it should stay posix
<riteo>
that said a c alternative sounds great too
<Vova>
The only downside of keeping it in pure posix is the lack of "local" variables imho
<Vova>
Bash is great for that
<Vova>
Even bash's arrays are cool too tbf
<riteo>
I was looking into a sort of fork with a custom format and retro-compatibility with kiss but again can't do it yet
<riteo>
I mean the argument is that the format is so simple that it should not need fancy scripting features
<Vova>
Wait let me try to make a "kiss-buildator", something that automatically build packages into a chroot and only pull the builded packages
<Vova>
Also is there any of you who run a clang only kiss ?
<Vova>
Like no gcc
<Vova>
Everything compiled with clang
<riteo>
there have been repos optimized for that but I have no idea if they're maintained anymore
<riteo>
I just go strong with whatever's there and my outdated fork packages
<riteo>
so, not me
<Vova>
Fair
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<sewn>
Vova: do you mean with LLVM
<Vova>
Yeah
<Vova>
full clang/llvm
<sewn>
yeah that sounds nice
<Vova>
And why not full lto too
<sewn>
i tried to do that but failed, the bootstrap process is terrible
<sewn>
once you have a full kiss-llvm system, no need to bootstrap further
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<midfavila>
swear to god kingston is the only reason i can into SSDs
<midfavila>
every other mainstream manufacturer of M.2 SSDs still sells well over 100 CAD
<midfavila>
any of you use one of their NV3 drives?
<kris_>
both of my desktop ssds are best buy "refurbs"
<midfavila>
fair
<kris_>
$80 for a 2tb samsung 970 evo plus, when i got it, it had the normal factory 15gb written/read so im guessing someone returned it after not knowing how to use it
<kris_>
same story8 with my 1tb boot drive
<midfavila>
idk if best buy canada sells refurbs
<midfavila>
stores kind of suck here compared to america
* midfavila
mostly just wants that ikea projekt credit card
<midfavila>
does best buy sell bicycles in america
<midfavila>
for some reason they've started selling bikes here
<kris_>
ebikes yeah
<kris_>
idk about normal ones
<midfavila>
yeah it's ebikes here too
<midfavila>
ngl i kind of hate ebikes
<kris_>
:gun:
<kris_>
why do you hate ebikes they're so cool
<midfavila>
because they defeat the point of having a bicycle
<midfavila>
get a vespa
<kris_>
i think you're viewing this incorrectly
<kris_>
a lot of it is so you can ride in a grey area of legality
<midfavila>
yes
<midfavila>
i know
<kris_>
only reason most of them even have pedals
<midfavila>
that's the problem
<midfavila>
yes
<midfavila>
i know
<midfavila>
that's also the problem
<midfavila>
get a vespa
<kris_>
pretty sure a vespa would require a license
<midfavila>
49cc models
<kris_>
shrug
<kris_>
i ended up getting a car
<kris_>
kris bad i know
<midfavila>
at least here, most provinces don't require licences for 49cc or lower vehicles afaik
<midfavila>
yes very bad
<midfavila>
modernity is LE BAD
<kris_>
dang someone needs to bap me with a newspaper i guess
<kris_>
or put my car on the top shelf
<midfavila>
if you don't weave your own fabric what are you even doing
<midfavila>
smdh
<kris_>
legit though insane deal
<kris_>
not like i'm the one who paid for it though and im kinda shocked by this fact
<midfavila>
i will say though that if an ebike stops someone from getting a car i won't complain
<kris_>
my stepmother had made her daughter pay for half of hers but paid fully for mine because "you don't seem entitled to anything"
<kris_>
not sure how to react to that but is good i guess
<kris_>
hopefully there's no family drama as a result of that lmao
<midfavila>
ooooooo someone's stepmum's favourite
<midfavila>
:3c
<kris_>
unlike most people she has an understanding of like
<kris_>
i grew up in a <70 population area with zero chance of ever getting a job and wasn't allowed to even go past the front lawn until i was 18
<kris_>
so i never had an opportunity to do anything
<kris_>
car lets me do thing
<midfavila>
that's crazy
<kris_>
yeah someone not calling me lazy and actually listening to what i say is batshit insane
<kris_>
in my experience
* kris_
has a distaste for boomers
<midfavila>
you should watch me go off in ##Canada about boomer-related issues
<midfavila>
= w=;
<kris_>
i need to see what other channels exist on here at some point
<midfavila>
a lot
<kris_>
at the moment i'm only really involved with #voidlinux and here
<midfavila>
lol
<kris_>
i loiter in #chimera-linux on OFTC
<kris_>
i went into #linux for a little bit and immediately lost brain cells
<midfavila>
oh?
<kris_>
people just really love arguing in bad faith
<midfavila>
maybe
<kris_>
like the last argument i had there was someone telling me that btrfs wasnt noticeably slower than ext4 and xfs so i sent a link with literal benchmarks showing that gnome-terminal takes 3.5 seconds to open on btrfs compared to <500ms on the others
<kris_>
and then refusing to look at it and telling me i'm making shit up
<midfavila>
>gnome-terminal
<kris_>
the point is the filesystem difference
<kris_>
not what app is being launched
<midfavila>
:P
<midfavila>
idk i just don't care about most of that stuff any more. no point in trying to change people's minds
<midfavila>
nilfs is best anyway
<midfavila>
:3c
<kris_>
yeah really the problem is me for continuing to argue with people
<midfavila>
yeah doesn't look like the local best buy has anything re: nvme drives
<midfavila>
rip
<midfavila>
go figure, best buy sucks
<kris_>
ive been thinking about getting another one at some point
<midfavila>
i want to get one of those sickass 16x carrier cards
<kris_>
i have access to really cheap dell enterprise NVMEs
<kris_>
via knowing someone who works at dell via a proxy
<kris_>
who just has a pile of them
<midfavila>
run four nvmes in raid 0
<kris_>
they arent normal size though id have to get a pcie card
<midfavila>
hell yeah
<kris_>
honestly
<kris_>
i havent been able to tell a difference in disk speed past decent quality sata ssds
<midfavila>
yeah in most cases it doesn't matter
<kris_>
i got more of a bump from ext4 -> xfs
<kris_>
out of what i noticed i mean
<midfavila>
if you're working with small files then 600mbps or 6000mbps doesn't mean much
<kris_>
though i didnt move to xfs for performance reasons
<kris_>
ive had ext4 blow itself up on power loss way too many times
<midfavila>
i would understand for like, higher-demand games, or video editing or w/e
<kris_>
have TRIED to cause that on xfs and can't
<midfavila>
oh yeah ext4 is a pain
<midfavila>
i pretty much only use like, xfs and nilfs
<kris_>
oh yeah i consoomed the other day
<midfavila>
what did you consoom
<kris_>
bought a few games
<kris_>
silent hill 2 remaster, resident evil 2,3,4 remaster
<kris_>
and omori
<midfavila>
you *would* buy omori
<midfavila>
wouldn't you
<kris_>
what does this mean
<midfavila>
it means it's kris-coded
<kris_>
maybe
<kris_>
idk anything about it, it was just recommended by a bunch of people who know the type of shit i'm interested in so probably
<midfavila>
woa kris undertale from deltarune
<midfavila>
play deltarune
<kris_>
bleh i also should play undertale at some point
<midfavila>
eh
<kris_>
i got it for like $3 and just never touched it
<midfavila>
undertale is a story game
<midfavila>
not a game-game
<kris_>
i mostly play games for story
<midfavila>
that's fair
<kris_>
outside of counterstrike
<midfavila>
i played through ut a few times
<midfavila>
it's okay
<midfavila>
deltarune is much better
<kris_>
there are very few story games ive played through multiple times
<kris_>
i played the FUCKING SHIT out of doki doki literature club and you better not bully me for that
<kris_>
and the legend of zelda ocarina of time
<kris_>
a man has to get all endings on ddlc
<midfavila>
i am absolutely going to bully you for playing muh literacy club multiple times
<kris_>
just monika bro
<midfavila>
basic
<midfavila>
:3c
<midfavila>
idk ddlc is too on-the-nose
<kris_>
there are a few games i'm a huge fan of that i get bullied for liking
<kris_>
that isn't actually one of them
<kris_>
oh there's another game i need to check out, hold on, forgot what it was called but it was free on steam when i grabbed it
<kris_>
yume nikki
<kris_>
its by the same people who made ib and mad father so i figure ill be into it since i really like both of those games
<kris_>
the holy kris coded games: ib, mad father, corpse party, deep sleep
<kris_>
(games i grew up with other than what i had on my n64)
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<riteo>
oh I heard great things out of yume nikki
<riteo>
also wtf mid you played deltarune?!?!?!!?!
<riteo>
I didn't expect that
<riteo>
consooming the finest stuff i must say, deltarune is peak
<midfavila>
ch1 and 2
<midfavila>
yes
<midfavila>
not 3 or 4
<midfavila>
i don't have the cash to buy bibeo bames rn
<midfavila>
anyway brb going on lunch break
<riteo>
nw mid
<riteo>
have a nice lunch :D
<sewn>
delta rune paid
<sewn>
bad
<sewn>
I don't like
<sewn>
one shot good u play
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<midfavila>
bad
<midfavila>
back
<midfavila>
fuc
<midfavila>
company paid for sandwich fixings for the month
<kris_>
food hours
<midfavila>
lunch today is roast beef on sourdough with dijon mustard, pickles, sauerkraut, and red leicester cheese
<midfavila>
btw any of you ever look at romfs?
<sewn>
no :3
<riteo>
holy macaroni that sandwitch sounds yummyyyyyyyyyyyy
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<kris_>
sandwich gang
<midfavila>
riteo sandwich was yummers
<midfavila>
dijon mustard always makes my nose burn though
<midfavila>
kris_ eat sammich
<midfavila>
10/10 food
<kris_>
no i'm going to just sit here and be pissed off
<midfavila>
do not the angy pls
<kris_>
i should probably just actually ask in the irc but i have some questions about alpine that haven't been answered anywhere lol
<kris_>
asking about a projects political stance usually goes super well i think
<midfavila>
alpine is basically just a subproject of docker
<kris_>
like im confused on whether or not this is a corporate distro
<kris_>
confused on whether or not it's like actually a community thing tldr
<midfavila>
i tend to lump alpine in with red hat ngl
<midfavila>
that "camp"
<kris_>
i definitely usually don't
<kris_>
idk linux sucks i should just stop using computers
<midfavila>
become farmer
<kris_>
ive been unironically considering it for years at this point
<kris_>
but i know i'm not going to be happy with that
<kris_>
or maybe i will who knows
<midfavila>
you could always start reading the osdev wiki
<midfavila>
:3c
<kris_>
the issue isnt linux, the issue is *me*
<kris_>
could make something cool if i felt like i had the free time to maintain any of it lol
<kris_>
im just shocked there are no distros out there that have already finished packages that are actually suitable for a server
<kris_>
lmao does slackwares website actually run on a pentium 3
<midfavila>
wouldnt surprise me
<midfavila>
that would be very slack
<riteo>
I'm pretty sure that alpine is not corporate
<riteo>
would be plastered with corporate sponsors on the homepage and receive a crapton of "kindly sponsored by" contributions
<riteo>
I think it's just very opinionated and happened to really line up with the needs of corporations due to docker's boom
<riteo>
I mean the mini root filesystem at the end is nothing more than, what, busybox, musl, apk, perhaps some of thei custom scripts?
<riteo>
there's very little to "corporate"
<riteo>
kris_: I honestly wouldn't be surprised if it still ran on a pentium 3
<riteo>
that would really be a certified slackware moment, the most based kind
<riteo>
mfw unix just works
<kris_>
according to the website it does run on a p3 with 512mb of ram lol
<midfavila>
yeap sounds about right
<kris_>
shit would be better suited by a raspberry pi
<midfavila>
it's going to be a sad day when patrick passes
<midfavila>
kris_: that's not slack
<kris_>
i find that so illogical that its funny though
<midfavila>
don't be silly
<kris_>
midfavila: god dammit someone needs to explain what that means
<midfavila>
slack is slack
<kris_>
every time i inquire about some choice slackware has made people just say "we're slacking"
<midfavila>
you need to just get it
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<midfavila>
you gotta ~vibe~
<midfavila>
~chill~
<midfavila>
~slack~
<midfavila>
~take it easy~
<kris_>
>HP
<midfavila>
hue points
<riteo>
honestly that's working better that I expected
<riteo>
slacking really is the way huh
<midfavila>
yes
<midfavila>
slackware is my favourite set it and forget it distro
<midfavila>
it unironically just works
<riteo>
I really should try it sometime
<midfavila>
i've never had a single issue with it
<riteo>
wait does it support musl
<riteo>
or is it glibc only
<riteo>
or both
<midfavila>
glibc only
<riteo>
that checks out
<riteo>
I mean it makes sense
<kris_>
midfavila: but what if i want some sort of newer software
<kris_>
do you run -current
<midfavila>
no
<kris_>
slackware lets packages get fucking OLD
<midfavila>
if you want to be an updooter use a different distro
<midfavila>
updooter
<midfavila>
:3c
<riteo>
lmao
<midfavila>
gonna updoooooot AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
<riteo>
mid what does the c mean
<riteo>
like a lil hand?
<midfavila>
ye
<midfavila>
:3cccc
<riteo>
that's cuteee
<riteo>
UwU
<midfavila>
yes i know i'm adorable
<riteo>
yea
<kris_>
okay then allow me to inquire this
<kris_>
how is slackware politically
<midfavila>
slack
<kris_>
god dammit
<riteo>
what does politically mean in this contex
<riteo>
like, how is it managed?
<midfavila>
idk i guess if i was serious i would say that slackware takes the lowest common denominator approach
<midfavila>
it doesn't overcomplicate things
<midfavila>
it measures thrice and strikes once and then moves on
<riteo>
wait is slackware boomer kiss
<midfavila>
more like boomer gentoo
<riteo>
I think it's way simpler than gentoo honestly
<kris_>
slackware has use flags and shit?
<midfavila>
if you edit the slackbuild yes
<kris_>
mid
<midfavila>
:P
<kris_>
if i install slackware in a VM and there's no option to disable the fucking HP printer drivers
<midfavila>
just remove them
<midfavila>
idk why you're seething so hard
<midfavila>
you can just get rid of them
<riteo>
oh wow it's really boomer gentoo then
<kris_>
im mostly goofing around
<riteo>
what is this distro then
<midfavila>
zoomer crux
<riteo>
oh yea after reading the wiki page it really looks more in line with it
<riteo>
I really had the wrongest idea about slack
<riteo>
> and a footprint file listing the files to be included in the packages.
<riteo>
not gonna lie that sounds actually very sweet
<riteo>
kinda manual yea but it's basically a pregenerated manifest
<riteo>
and it would actually make stuff like the "file" dependencies infinitely easier
<kris_>
im curious how slackware current even goes
<midfavila>
wdym
<kris_>
ive heard that slackwares philosophy is to not update stuff without a reason
<midfavila>
it's rolling release
<midfavila>
yes
<kris_>
so i figure it isnt a true roller
<midfavila>
it is
<kris_>
like arch
<midfavila>
it is
<kris_>
>:(
<kris_>
sounds like a whole lot of updating stuff without a reason
<midfavila>
stable releases are snapshots of current once patrick is satisfied afaik
<midfavila>
not really
<midfavila>
it's not about updooting
<midfavila>
it's about polishing
<riteo>
wait
<midfavila>
the packages themselves are stable
<riteo>
does slack have the same bdfl since the start
<midfavila>
yes
<riteo>
crazy
<kris_>
whos going to replace him anyway
<midfavila>
yes
<kris_>
is there a protocol for that
<midfavila>
dunno
<midfavila>
nope
<midfavila>
not to my knowledge
<kris_>
what if it just vanishes one day
<midfavila>
who knows!
<midfavila>
there might be an election
<riteo>
impossible, he's slacking
<riteo>
infinite stamina
<riteo>
zero burnouts
<midfavila>
i mean
<riteo>
that's really the blessed way
<midfavila>
unironically
<kris_>
i think i'm understanding what this distro is based on how you're explaining this
<midfavila>
i don't think he's ever stopped
<midfavila>
he just kinda goes
<kris_>
>don't know don't care
<midfavila>
and stuff happens when it happens
<kris_>
>the distro
<midfavila>
not really
<kris_>
so does this seriously not have dependency resolution
<kris_>
yknow what im gonna look into this
<midfavila>
yeah it doesn't need dependency resolution
<riteo>
i swear if it weren't for my zoomer brain's need for musl I might even have daily'd that eventually
<midfavila>
all of the dependencies are already there
<riteo>
I must moosl
<kris_>
yeah i also must moosl
* midfavila
shrugs
<kris_>
moving to musl i guess wouldnt be slacking
<midfavila>
you could probably build most of the packages against musl
<riteo>
yea that's actually kinda painful
<midfavila>
just gotta write your own thing
<riteo>
because weird embedded crap in glibc
<midfavila>
for musl
<riteo>
like, what was the name
<riteo>
obs? or something
<riteo>
libexec, thread local stuff iirc
<riteo>
custom stack unwinding apis
<riteo>
locale
<riteo>
god locale
<riteo>
thinking about it it might be the only thing that really kinda is missing from musl but arguably it should not be in the libc should it