phoebos changed the topic of #kisslinux to: Unofficial KISS Linux community channel (logs at https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/kisslinux/) | https://kisscommunity.bvnf.space | post logs or else | song of the day https://yewtu.be/watch?v=S81bNIK4MaE
<asimov> EliSoli: fala deabo
<EliSoli> eae
<EliSoli> perguntei pra galera quem era o Rahon, disseram que era o asimov kkkk eu ja tinha ajudado vc antes
<midfavila> EliSoli: we use muon
<midfavila> at least last i checked
<midfavila> phoebos: are we still using muon?
<EliSoli> muon? still in the ninja topic?
<midfavila> muon is an alternative to meson
<asimov> ja mano mas adiantou nada
<asimov> eu não sei por que ta dando o erro
<EliSoli> no, the kiss repo gets its source com https://github.com/mesonbuild/meson/archive/1.8.2.tar.gz
<asimov> to a mais de anos perguntando para esses gringos e nada de eles conseguirem me ajudar kkkk
<EliSoli> asimov: pse, eu n entendi direito oq vc tava querendo fazer
<asimov> eu so quero poder compartilhar a tela nesse carai
<asimov> no meet ou sei la
<asimov> mas nunca da
<asimov> o pipewire quebra toda vez
<EliSoli> vc vai precisar do xdg-desktop-portal e xdg-desktop-portal-wlr
<asimov> eu ja tentei instalar os pacotes kkkk
<EliSoli> pse, ai que ta minha duvida, oq o pipewire tem haver com isso kkkkkkk
<asimov> mano
<EliSoli> vc ta usando ele pra gravar o som do desktop?
<asimov> porque ele que faz todo o trampo de compartilhar a tela
<asimov> tanto que tu tem que compilar ele com essa opç~ao
<EliSoli> eu nunca usei ele pra isso, so uso como driver de audio. eu to usando so os xdgs pra compartilhar a tela
<asimov> sim mas tipo
<asimov> o xdg-portal tu usa no pipewire tlgd
<asimov> ele compila com isso ai
<asimov> e faz o processo de compartilhar
<asimov> ele serve ate para bluetooth
<EliSoli> meh, eu n tinha chegado nesse nivel ai n
<EliSoli> vou pesquisar mais sobre
<EliSoli> como vc add suporte pra compartilhamento no pipewire?
<asimov> mano
<asimov> tu so compila ele com o dbus ativado
<EliSoli> aaahhh
<asimov> e o xdg-desktop compilado
<EliSoli> tem gente que roda o dbus como daemon, eu rodo so na hora de abrir o WM com dbus-run-session
<EliSoli> acho que pra usar com o pipewire teria que ser com daemon eu acredito
<EliSoli> vou tentar fazer isso dps
<EliSoli> yo midfavila
<EliSoli> why shouldn't we use dbus as a daemon?
<midfavila> wot
<midfavila> because dbus sucks
<EliSoli> is there a reason?
<midfavila> ye
<midfavila> dbus sucks
<EliSoli> why?
<EliSoli> idk much about it tbh
<midfavila> because it's unnecessary and overcomplicated
<midfavila> it's just an IPC method
<midfavila> pipes or sockets are sufficient
<EliSoli> but it's necessary for screen casting with pipewire and xdg-portal
<midfavila> don't use wayland
<EliSoli> use what instead?
<EliSoli> x11?
<midfavila> x11 server
<midfavila> yes
<EliSoli> it's more bloated than having dbus
<midfavila> xfbdev is nice
<midfavila> wayland requires you use something like gtk4/5 or qt 5
<midfavila> x11 is far lighter-weight and less complex in totality
* midfavila turns his nose up a little
<EliSoli> xfbdev is like a x.org alternative?
<midfavila> yes, sort of
<midfavila> it's an implementation maintained by tinycore and puppy and draws directly to the framebuffer
<midfavila> maybe not the best for a multihead system but on laptops and portables it's great
<midfavila> using it rn
<asimov> mano dbus sucks e e isso
<asimov> eu ja aceitei isso de mantra
<EliSoli> stupid question: can you use firefox with it?
<midfavila> using firefox on it rn
<EliSoli> interesting
<asimov> mas o que e foda e que tu tava usando o dbus igual eu e mesmo assim tava conseguindo de boa
<sad_plan> thouth you use links midfavila
<sad_plan> s/thouth/thought/
<midfavila> usually, yes
<midfavila> my laptop is unfortunately still running the stock debian image
<EliSoli> cara, vou dar uma olhada nesse xfbdev, tlvz seja interesante, acho o wayland overcomplicated
<sad_plan> and palemoon, was it? for when links does not suffice
<sad_plan> I see
<asimov> mano
<midfavila> i need to get my workstation shipped to me from new brunswick before i can continue work on my distribution
<asimov> eu desisti do xorg faz tempo
<EliSoli> tbm, x.org e bloated dms
<midfavila> i agree
<asimov> isso ai que eles tao falando ja é algo bem mais doido que so rodar wm
<midfavila> x.org bloat
* midfavila nods sagely
<sad_plan> is there a reason you guys are speaking spanish instead of english..?
<EliSoli> por isso eu gosto do runit, systemd trata o usuario como um bb, tem opcao pra tudo, custa o usuario rodar um ln?
<EliSoli> n gosto de tanta abstracao
<asimov> kkkkkk
<asimov> entao
<asimov> eu to nessa distro por isso
<midfavila> sad_plan: phoebos said it's fine so mnmhnmhmnmhmmmhmn
<asimov> menos complexa
<asimov> mas ao mesmo tempo
<midfavila> not a big deal
<asimov> tem muito problema
<asimov> uh
<asimov> guy
<asimov> guys
<midfavila> ?
<asimov> EliSoli is from my country
<EliSoli> asimov: thought you were russian first time talked to u, cuz of the name
<midfavila> yeah nobody is off about anything
<asimov> i discovered beacause of his codeberg
<EliSoli> i was looking for ya some days ago to tell u i started learning russian djkfhjdkashgf
<asimov> mano como assim kkkkkk
<asimov> russo de onde
<EliSoli> asimov e nome russo
<asimov> illilit is russian
<EliSoli> isn't it a russian name?
<sad_plan> midfavila: well, I suppose youre right. its just annoying
<asimov> kinda
* midfavila flicks sad_plan
<midfavila> be *nice*
<EliSoli> i could never use the illilit's initramfs utility, i create mine manually
* sad_plan ducks away
<asimov> is beacause is from isaac asimov and i was doing college in engenharia de controle e automacao
<sad_plan> I am nice
<EliSoli> from a simple one line script
<kris_> i use tinyramfs on pretty much all of my machines
<asimov> EliSoli: vi que tu e do sul
<asimov> nasci no norte
<asimov> se quiser participar de algum projeto ai me fala, comecei agora em software e to com vontade de ate reviver essa distro
<EliSoli> kris_: i can't even boot my machines without one. I need it to install the firmwares, I have no idea how to install them without it, the kernel just can't locate them inside the rootfs
<midfavila> build it into the kernel
* midfavila nods sagely
<EliSoli> asimov sou do sul, RS, lugar frio e ao mesmo tempo com dias que parecem ter 50 graus
<asimov> ja fui em blumenau
<asimov> nao tankei
<kris_> EliSoli: i use it because i have a slightly abnormal boot setup that requires it
<midfavila> i don't think i've ever used a ramfs outside of distros that come with one
<EliSoli> midfavila: kinda... idk... you can't build everything into the kernel man, that's stupid
<midfavila> sure you can
<midfavila> i was talking with kris_ about doing just that earlier
<midfavila> i don't even enable modules, it's fine :v
<EliSoli> kris_: you using a PDP-11, aren't you?
<EliSoli> asimov: que tipos de projetos vc curte fazer? quais langs vc usa?
<EliSoli> acabei n vendo muito seu codeberg
<EliSoli> n sei se la tem todos os projeto tbm
<kris_> EliSoli: a what now
<EliSoli> eu costumo manter os meus privados ate a release
<EliSoli> kris_: what?
<kris_> what is a PDP-11
<EliSoli> kris_: a computer, search about it
<EliSoli> from the era when computers weren't even compatible with each other
<EliSoli> punch cards
<EliSoli> magnetic tapes
<kris_> :p
<EliSoli> tar comes from this era
<EliSoli> Tape ARchive
<midfavila> i hope you're joking about not knowing about the pdp machines kris_
<EliSoli> surely he knows about 6502, right kris_
<kris_> nope and nope
<EliSoli> everybody writes an emulator for 6502
<EliSoli> kris_ you're what, 8?
<midfavila> i refuse to believe you don't know about the 6502 and the pdp kris_
<kris_> my knowledge of things ends with the pentium
* EliSoli slaps kris_
<midfavila> bruv
<EliSoli> kris_ surely was boarn after the 2000's
<kris_> i did say earlier that i'm 23
<midfavila> kris and i are the same age
* midfavila sniffs
<EliSoli> you can't be 23 and do not know about pdp kris_
<kris_> quit it
<EliSoli> that's simply not possible
<EliSoli> or ...
<kris_> ill search about it in a bit i'm industrializing my revolution
<EliSoli> you've used linux mint
<EliSoli> if you've used linux mint i understand
<midfavila> don't bully kris he's gonna shank you
<EliSoli> at least you are evoluting
<kris_> ..in like 2012 yeah i used linux mint
<EliSoli> kris_ u suck
<EliSoli> don't use mint
<EliSoli> never!
* midfavila flicks Eli
<kris_> EliSoli: i was fucking 10
<kris_> was just playing with it
<kris_> i started with suse studio
<EliSoli> okaay, i forgive you
<EliSoli> i alreaady used windows... for also please forgive me
<EliSoli> i've been sining
<EliSoli> test -- 0x02 aa
<EliSoli> ASCII 0x02 test
<EliSoli> how can I do bold?
<sad_plan> has anyone used ex at all really? ive found an implementation for it https://github.com/dlisboa/ex
<EliSoli> ^B test
<EliSoli> ^Bword
<EliSoli> ^Bword^B
<EliSoli> damn
<midfavila> EliSoli that's rendered client side
<midfavila> convention is *this*
<asimov> EliSoli: cara eu so sei mais front o que e pessimo, to aprendendo java agora e shell POSIX, depois vou para C
<EliSoli> asimov: saquei, areas bem diferentes
<EliSoli> eu comecei no web, ent manjo tanto de front como de back, mas to indo mais pro lado de sistemas atualmente, POSIX Shell, C, Zig...
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<kris_> did liberachat just die for anyone else
<kris_> or was that my bouncer somehow
<kris_> yeah guessing that was libera
<EliSoli> i think irc died in general, just a few people use it now
<kris_> not what i meant
<kris_> i meant like a disconnect
<EliSoli> oh, idk
<EliSoli> i have a dragon mousepad
<EliSoli> so idk
* EliSoli has a dragon mousepad
<vulpine> kris_: the server you were connected to is shedding (slowly disconnecting people)
<vulpine> its what they do when they plan on restarting it soon, so that they wont have to disconnect a bunch of people at once
<kris_> ic
<asimov> EliSoli: i sended an email to you in you codeberg email
<asimov> days ago
<EliSoli> i didn't' find any email from u
<EliSoli> asimov
<EliSoli> ah, i found it searching for ur email address
<EliSoli> your email address isn't public but, yk, there's always a way to find out things...
<EliSoli> hehe
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<Vova> It's me or firefox is getting worse and worse performances ?
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<sewn> good
<sewn> firefox is dying anyway
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<Vova> sewn what do you use then ? chromium I guess ?
<sewn> yes
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<Vova> Nice
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<Vova> Damn I migrated to ungoogled chromium and holy f***, it consumes way less ram and cpu
<Vova> (compared to firefox)
<sewn> hahahahahaaaaa
<kris_> people are going to have to pry librewolf out of my hands
<kris_> its the only decent browser ive found
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<sewn> sounds easy
<kris_> sewn: shut, it'd be super difficult
<kris_> or at least moderately difficult idk
<kris_> dont touch my librewolf
* sewn places kris_ on the top shelf
<kris_> YES
<kris_> i can finally get all of the stuff mid put up here
<sewn> bwaaa
<sewn> what did they place up there
<kris_> i cant remember all of it but i know counterstrike is up here
<kris_> my car is alaso up here
<kris_> uh
<sewn> okay well
<kris_> void linux may or may not be up here
<sewn> get it down before mid notices
<kris_> yes
<kris_> DAWs suck
<kris_> ive been wanting to make music for a long time but DAWs suck
<Vova> Man
<Vova> C++ is fucking shit
<Vova> Peoples abuse templates and then we end up with fucking messes that take 30min to compile
<sewn> lol
<kris_> Vova: all languages are shit
<Vova> c is fine
* kris_ likes golang and posix shell
<Vova> C23 with the addition of `auto`, `constexpr` and `typeof` is fire
<sewn> vova: youre serious
<sewn> C is NOT FINE
<sewn> NO
<sewn> my god "auto" in C just no
<sewn> kris_: how well do you write Go
<Vova> sewn: yeah C is fine
<Vova> Don't tell me you like Zig more...
<thomas_adam> C3 is nice...
<sewn> C is not a language that should be used nowadays
<Vova> I'll *((void *)(0)) your laptop sewn
<sewn> it was made to write assembly easier
<sewn> it is not for modern day programming anymore
<Vova> Lie
<Vova> C is fine
<sewn> as i said
<sewn> C is made to write assembly easier
<sewn> while other modern languages are actually for writing stuff that goes
<sewn> i do not think zig is better
<Vova> Nah tbf, I'm quite lying here, I do love C, but always get bored when writing it
<sewn> however i know zig has more tweaks
<sewn> ive tried c, dart, zig, hare, go, sh, lua, and im looking to try rust
<Vova> Rust is good but the community is cancer
<sewn> and rust after just understanding BASIC concepts it becomes readable
<sewn> community? i wouldnt say so
<Vova> Rust is cancer by trying to enforce rust everywhere
<kris_> i don't really get bored when writing C, i get annoyed
<kris_> it's just so clearly not fit for desktop program dev
<sewn> Vova: theyre not enforcing it anywhere
<sewn> what are you on about
<sewn> kris_: languages in which you worry about memory makes you spend more time on language semantics
<sewn> like Zig
<sewn> Go on the otherhand you just fucking implement
<sewn> immediately get to prototyping
<kris_> with go you write your program
<sewn> mhm
<kris_> with C/zig you write the language
<sewn> loll
<Vova> sewn: bruh, everywhere you see "why not rust for this project" "please reimplement it in rust", rust is in the kernel now, the community is turbo cancer, if they see C they want to rewrite it in rust
<kris_> you're not wrong
<kris_> some things i kinda get though
<kris_> uutils is interesting to me because coreutils are good imo usage wise but they blow in terms of quality
<Vova> kris_: I agree
<kris_> rewriting sudo in rust is wasted effort though imo
<kris_> memory safe sudo is called doas and it already exists
<kris_> for network facing type stuff i almost exclusively use software written in go
<kris_> like my bouncer, webserver, etc
<Vova> kris_: same, go is awesome for networking stuff
<kris_> ya
<kris_> wrote my discord bot in go, it was great
<kris_> the discordgo library is kinda poorly documented i think but it works
<sewn> Vova: i disagree
<sewn> kris_: you lame
<sewn> use arikawa discord library
* sewn has written 3 bots and utilities in arikawa and likes it
<sewn> even in my go project i cant recall ever seeing someone say "why not rust"
<kris_> sewn: i didn't know this existed
<kris_> discordgo is the first thing i found
<sewn> always look for something better
<sewn> stop being blind
<kris_> its a super super super simple bot anyway
<kris_> it doesnt really matter
<kris_> waiting for mean comments about the code despite how simple it is
<sewn> so
<sewn> no discord command system
<sewn> no user-controlled flag system
<kris_> nah i didnt bother
<sewn> this mf
<kris_> it's just a goofy bot for my server
<sewn> made a function to wrap around slices.Contains
<sewn> INSTEAD OF USING slices.ContainsFunc
<sewn> like
<sewn> WHAT?????
<kris_> TIL that exists
<sewn> oh man the "i have to reimplement logging" instead of letting the service manager doing
<sewn> kris_: its litreally in the package docs
<sewn> right below it
<kris_> sewn: listen okay
<kris_> about the logging
<kris_> there's a very valid reason for that
<sewn> so much
<sewn> fucking identation
<sewn> what happened to offhandling functions
<sewn> making smaller funcs from eexisting ones
<sewn> using map-func instead of a GIANT CASE SWITCH
<sewn> which THIS WOULDNT HAVE HAPPENED if you use the DISCORD COMMAND SYSTEM
<kris_> im gonna go ahead and let you know
<kris_> this is the first thing i actually wrote in go after having only tinkered with it for forever
<sewn> oh and also its stupid that discordgo doesnt use context.Context
<kris_> it's incredibly rare for me to have a reason to not use shell
<sewn> look here
<kris_> ill fix some issues with it later
<sewn> plz
<sewn> scream at me
<sewn> silly project i made cuz i didnt like someone doing it in elixir
<kris_> your indentation bothers me
<kris_> sewn: i dont really have anything to say about yours
<sewn> identation where
<sewn> tell
<kris_> why are you using tab characters
<kris_> actually nevermind i dont wanna ignite that discussion
<kris_> lmfao
<sewn> go fmt
<sewn> uses tab characters
<sewn> because its superior
<kris_> i'm a big fan of "tab is actually 4 spaces"
<sewn> look up the ascii table dumbass
<sewn> you can see
<sewn> tab is right there
<kris_> sewn in the mean arc
<sewn> i dont like being mean but i dont like seeing misinformation
<kris_> it's not misinformation?
<kris_> i didn't mean it literally
<kris_> i just prefer 4 spaces to tabs
<sewn> okay you can prefer 4 spaces to tabs
<kris_> this is why i regret starting this discussion lmao
<sewn> but tab is not 4 spaces
<sewn> grrrr
<sewn> atleast say some shit like its more readable or tabs arent consistent width
<kris_> obviously not
<sewn> no you had to say something stupid
<kris_> i hate to be that guy but i think it's a language barrier
<kris_> americans say shit like that to show preference
<sewn> so american dialect is stupid
<kris_> didn't realize it would be interpreted literally
<sewn> can i switch sides
<sewn> how 2 switch dialect
<kris_> i'm aware tab characters exist and it's annoying as fuck when people send me patches due to it
<kris_> see: the no tab characters rule on my void install script
<sewn> hmph
<midfavila> sewn c is fine
<sewn> yeah mid its fiiine its whateverrrr
<sewn> it wooorks I guueesssss
<midfavila> the tool does its job - systems programming and moderate-complexity applications development
<midfavila> for huge systems you can argue that other languages are useful
<midfavila> but the problem, as i see it, is methodology
<midfavila> = w=
<sewn> >.>
<midfavila> angy
<midfavila> going to put you in the time out box
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<midfavila> basically, yes
<midfavila> ^9.3 in sudo
<midfavila> ugh i wish the LUG in my area wasn't dead
<midfavila> last update was like fifteen years ago geesh
<kris_> midfavila: the lug in my area is pretty dead too
<kris_> like there are still meetups but it's just very very small, small enough to meet at places like arbys lol
<kris_> so i figure its like at most 4 people
<midfavila> i'm hoping when i move i'll be able to attend meetings
<kris_> im moderately confused by crux honestly
<kris_> stable release distro but it seems like they update things like it's a roller?
<kris_> im just externally observing it
<midfavila> it's a rolling distro that doesn't updoot constantly
<midfavila> they focus on stable packages, and once there's "enough" progress in the core to justify a new stable snapshot, that's the next version
<midfavila> or if there's like, breaking changes, or whatever
<midfavila> i think crux has a channel on here
<kris_> they do, nobody answered my question about the structure of that
<kris_> because they have stable releases but the ports are all super up to date
<kris_> as is core
<kris_> so im just.. confused on what the point of the snapshots are
<kris_> unless it's intended just to be something you install from
<midfavila> it is
<midfavila> that's the point
<kris_> so install -> update to latest ports tree and core
<midfavila> yeap
<midfavila> basically
<kris_> also kiss' go should probably be updated, some CVE
<midfavila> gotta updoot
<midfavila> oh man we're gonna updoot
<midfavila> aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
<kris_> CVE-2025-4674
<kris_> midfavila: i think it's valid for cves
<midfavila> i'm being a shithead
<midfavila> :p
<kris_> stinker
<kris_> i'm mostly free this upcoming week so think its time to play with crux
<kris_> honestly dunno how i'm just now looking at this, wasn't crux HUGE back in the early 2000s?
<midfavila> it was p big afaik
<midfavila> arch spun off of it
<midfavila> iirc
<kris_> idk how arch got to what it is now if it was inspired by crux
<kris_> though i guess what crux is was the norm at that time
<kris_> it is kinda weird how like half of this is written in perl but i dont mind that
* kris_ kinda like perl
<kris_> lmao sewn it seems like crux also does the 4 spaces > tab character
<sewn> never touching crux
<midfavila> spaces>tabs
<kris_> ^^^^^
<midfavila> but like also it doesn't fucking matter
<midfavila> at all
<kris_> mid is on my wavelength
<midfavila> i've seen so many people try to make tabs v spaces like
<midfavila> a fuckin
<midfavila> accessibility issue
<kris_> midfavila: it only matters when some fuck with a misconfigured editor sends a patch to a project that uses one or the other
<midfavila> while also not being disabled or anything in any way whatsoever
<kris_> like my stuff is all 4 spaces
<midfavila> like, weaponising other people's disabilities
<kris_> and someone sends me some shit using tabs
<midfavila> it's so fuckin weird
<kris_> that's the only time its really an issue
<midfavila> honestly, alternate between tabs and spaces on each new line
<kris_> that's a 10/10 idea
<midfavila> then everyone loses
<midfavila> so it's fair
<midfavila> also
<midfavila> randomise whether a file starts on tabs or spaces
<kris_> so crux seems to have trees for kde, enlightenment, and xfce
<kris_> there isnt one for gnome lol
<kris_> i cant tell if i think that kicks ass or not
<kris_> gnome sucks but it's the best of the DEs imo
<midfavila> go away
<kris_> okay
<midfavila> if there *is* a good DE, which there isn't, it's CDE or XFCE
<kris_> tbf never said it was good
<kris_> it blows but it's the most usable out of everything else
<kris_> you should know by now that i have a one and only, the one true love, sway
<midfavila> just use twm or fvwm
<midfavila> they're fine
<midfavila> they're literally fine
<midfavila> window maker is also good
<kris_> wayland only :gun:
<midfavila> those are your options
<kris_> the options are labwc, sway, and like
<kris_> rivre
<kris_> if you're insane enough to want a dynamic tiler
<midfavila> i saw a while ago someone was writing an FVWM-style compositor for wayland in common lisp
<midfavila> that made me consider switching for .000002 seconds
<kris_> lmao
<kris_> i didnt take you as someone who would want literally anything other than C and posix shell
<kris_> maybe some assembly
<midfavila> don't get me confused
<midfavila> i *tolerate* C and bourne
<midfavila> i would rather use mezzano
<midfavila> the second mezzano is like, viable, i'm ditching unix
<midfavila> gon
<midfavila> e
<midfavila> 4ever
<kris_> why mezzano
<kris_> another thing i didn't know existed
<midfavila> common lisp OS with no assembly or C or other stuff
<midfavila> nice and clean
<midfavila> scheme would be better but R7L or whatever hasn't been finalised yet so, whatever
<kris_> i 100% could see you being a gnu guix user
<kris_> based on this convo
<midfavila> i've tried guix
<midfavila> it's okay
<kris_> i came to the same conclusion
<kris_> i tried out the distro though not just the package manager on something else
<kris_> read nearly the whole manual and still have no clue how the fuck it works honestly
<midfavila> idk guix seems like you're just trying to graft lisp onto unix
<kris_> guix works really really well imho
<kris_> i also like nixos though so and i'm assuming we disagree there
<kris_> infact id call nixos superior if it wasnt for systemd
<kris_> the reasoning behind that being soley that nixos took me like a day to understand well enough to use it for whatever
<kris_> i messed with gnu guix for a full week or something and so much complexity is exposed to the user compared to on nixos where the mess is hidden
<kris_> hidden enough anyway
<kris_> bruh what bash has its own malloc?
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<midfavila> mfer sounds like a car from the jetsons
<sad_plan> for fuck sake.. does anyone use bubblewrap, or tried it before? im trying to test conty, but iv never been able to get it to launch. something is of with my kernel config i think. keep getting `bwrap: Can't read /proc/sys/kernel/overflowuid: No such file or directory`. what exacly could I be missing?
<sad_plan> searching has so far been empty handed
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