phoebos changed the topic of #kisslinux to: Unofficial KISS Linux community channel (logs at https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/kisslinux/) | https://kisscommunity.bvnf.space | post logs or else | song of the day https://yewtu.be/watch?v=S81bNIK4MaE
<midfavila> iirc firefox needs pulse
<EliSoli> well it can be compiled with only ALSA for audio support
<EliSoli> it also is the default in the repo now
<dery> yea but ALSA support is terrible
<dery> and basically unmaintained
<dery> I don't think that the default setup is optimized for realtime calls really
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<dery> there's also apulse if you really don't want to run pulseaudio
<dery> basically you can build firefox with (also) pulseaudio support and then run firefox under apulse
<dery> which is a shim that emulates pulseaudio for a specific program
<EliSoli> yeah i will stick with pipewire and pipewire-pulse for now then
<dery> that's absolutely fine :D
<sad_plan> midfavila: oh, I see
<sad_plan> dery: no, science hasnt gotten too far, its just the right way. repairable stuff
<dery> in what way sad_plan
<dery> why should a chip made to be put in... "smart" thermostats and other lil things have enough power to run linux
<dery> and how does that relate to repairability
<dery> and all right I admit it I might have slightly overreacted lol :P
<dery> it's terribly impressive
<sad_plan> I thought you meant the powerbank. but no, verything *smart* is things I mostly want not part of. most of it is also manufactured trash imo
<EliSoli> thx dery, love ya
<dery> <3
<dery> sad_plan: I was talking about the esp linux thing
<dery> like incredibly impressive but that's, like, an embedded wifi thingie
<sad_plan> I figured :p
<dery> oh aight
<dery> btw powerbanks are based indeed
<dery> luckily the juicier 60W+ ones are getting really more and more commond
<sad_plan> yeah, but I never really had much need for them. much less a 72k mAh one, lol
<dery> that's unironically forbidden in planes lmao
<dery> but like, I've been using for years high power powerbanks to bring my laptop anywhere
<dery> initially through lil usb-c PD to barrel jack adapters (initially homemade, then from ali)
<dery> but now my new laptop thanks to (somewhat based*) europe accepts usb-c directly
<dery> *apparently they are scared of trump cause... CARS? and are holding the google antitrust stuff
<dery> *just as america decided that google can casually walk off with the dumbest remedy ever
<sad_plan> I know, i think 10000mAh is the limit in most places. pretty sure you could potentially bypass it with having loose batteries, because batteries!=powerbank. so pretty sure you could loophole your way through getting more than that :p
<dery> I think that the limit is actually measured in WAh
<dery> like 100 or smth
<dery> no wait
<dery> yea Wh
<dery> which is like Ah times voltage or something
<sad_plan> I wish my laptop had usb-c, but I also wanna toss the damn thing and get a framwork laptop, or one from mnt instead, which would be much more interesting
<dery> you can get those adapters :D
<dery> I initally bought an usb pd trigger board that requested the right voltage and hooked it up to a suitable barrel jack
<sad_plan> I could, but i never really have my laptop with me outside of work, where its just plugged into the outlet anyway :p
<dery> then found out that they made lil injection molded adapters and went with that
<dery> oh fair then
<dery> USB PD might have unironically unlocked universal power transfer
<sad_plan> yes. but would be nice to have a laptop which would be more portable, and I would feel that I could actually bring around with me on short trips without bringing a charger
<dery> well without any kind of charger would require a pretty hefty battery
<dery> although new generations are really efficient
<dery> like my new laptop which has a marginally newer architecture (zen 3 coming from a zen 2+) is pretty darn efficient from what I can tell
<sad_plan> well, yes, but going on a small trip for a few hours, bringing my laptop, and not needing to charge. not going away for the weekend and forgetting your charger while also not needing it, lol
<dery> oh fair
<dery> well that should happen with all laptops really
<dery> what laptop do you have?
<dery> is the battery worn out?
<sad_plan> yeah new hw is getting both more performant, aswell as efficient, which is rather nice.
<sad_plan> I have an old acer aspire. i think its 7 years old or so now
<sad_plan> pretty sure the battery is trash. I think i can manager maybe 3 hours out of it now. also my setup isnt taking battery life into consideration, so theres that aswell :p
<dery> oh would you look at that I have a new acer aspire :P
<sad_plan> could probably tweak it to have better battery, but again, its mostly always plugged into the wall anyway :p
<sad_plan> nice :p
<dery> yea btw you can expect way better times on a modern laptop with kiss linux
<dery> even on my old laptop on I could expect 4-5 hours of light constant use at school
<sad_plan> I suspect as much. its also probably now doing me any favors with me using kernel 5.4 still :p
<dery> obviously with some considerations but I didn't have powersave or powertop yet
<sad_plan> right
<dery> nah I'd say that with old hardware there shouldn't be much room for improvement on old hardware really
<dery> might be wrong
<dery> but you generally need newer kernels for new hardware obviously
<dery> also I think that the main improvement in battery life might be related to the new amd p-states
<dery> no idea what magic they're doing but rn I'm consuming ~6 watts with max screen brightness and wifi on
<sad_plan> maybe not, I dunno. I cant even build a newer kernel for some reason. I would like to bump it because of some drm stuff, so I could maybe play some games again, but we'll see
<dery> oh what kind of issue are you having?
<dery> are you using custom patches?
<sad_plan> I dont recall, but anything newer than 5.4 i havent ben able to build yet
<dery> that's really weird, especially if you're running clean upstream code
<sad_plan> indeed i am. some patches for bearssl among couple other small stuff
<dery> ohhhhhhhhh
<dery> well that makes sense
<sad_plan> I dont belive its bearssl related though
<dery> I mean there's lots of crypto code in there
<dery> could be missing some new api or something
<dery> wait does linux depend on openssl?
<sad_plan> dont think so. mcf has been pretty good at fixing these things in his repo, and I did use his patches on 5.15 last year or so, but I downgraded to 5.4, because less features
<sad_plan> but yes, linux depends on some ssl stuff
<dery> I had no idea
<sad_plan> also, its issues with elf. get invalid arguments for some functions it seems
<sad_plan> honestly not sure whats the deal
<dery> well I hope you figure it out
<dery> I'd go one patch at a time at this point
<sad_plan> yeah
<dery> try to pinpoint stuff
<sad_plan> I dont think its patch related either tbh. I think ive tried it without patches, and it still failed
<dery> maybe even start from upstream, at the cost of getting openssl for a brief period of time
<dery> that's even weirder
<dery> maybe it's some build tool isue
<sad_plan> just havent bothered doing much more looking into it
<dery> could try clang
<dery> I daily drive thin-lto for the sake of it and definitely I'm not getting issue
<sad_plan> I would actually be interested in using clang, because of lto
<dery> tbf I din't really benchmark anything but I thought "why not?"
<dery> yea it's not that hard anymore to use it
<sad_plan> my current setup doesnt even support lto, lol
<dery> it's like, `make LLVM=1` and maybe `make LLVM=1 LLVM_AS=1`??????
<dery> I think the second one is outdated or something if that's even the right command
<sad_plan> yeah, I was looking at benchmarks on cachyos, arch, fedora and couple others, and there were some gains to be had, but not super a huge margin. i think it was in the ball room of 15% on a good day or something
<dery> but yea just pass it to makeconfig too and it should show up
<dery> well given that thin-lto has negligible times compared to full fat LTO I think any gains are worth :D
<dery> I'm sure that it's somewhat less efficient but eh
<sad_plan> right. I dont belive using llvm even a couple years ago was all that bad, but I suppose its gotten even better
<sad_plan> not 100% sure I would bother with lto on my laptop though, seeing as its not that powerfull. but no my desktop however, I would most likely use it, to push the most out of it if anything. or just continue with cachyOS instead which im currently running on it
<dery> uh it looks like thin-lto might be better than I expected
<dery> I kinda forgot I already did some research on the matter
<dery> but it might be even more efficient than full lto, at least according to rust people
<dery> and godot turned it on for LLVM targets cause the way faster times were really worth it
<sad_plan> nice. ive also read that thin-lto is in some occations, if not most, better
<dery> I should do some more testing now that my laptop is literally faster than my workstation
<sad_plan> its like -O3 is worse than -O2 and -Os even
<sad_plan> oh lol, tried to build 6.12.44, and it errored out immidiatly because it couldnt fine libm
<dery> oof
<sad_plan> and before you ask, obviosuly I have libm on my setup
<sad_plan> but because I use oasis, which splits / from /usr so to speak, I find that programs doesnt always know where to look for headers and libraries
<sad_plan> because some er under /lib and /include, while others are under /usr
<sad_plan> which messes up things more times than one would think
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<sad_plan> I shouldve probably prefixed my kiss stuff under /pkg or something
<sad_plan> which might not even fixed anything, or maybe it wouldve given me more issues instead :p
<dery> that's an interesting decision
<dery> why aren't they symlinked?
<dery> also time to go eep ig
<dery> i think i'll go to sleep, cya!
<sad_plan> because theyre different systems. kiss's packages lives under /usr, while oassis' is under /
<sad_plan> prefixes that is
<sad_plan> I could probably symlink things from / to /usr, but ive mostly just fixed it per package when it occurs, which is fine my me
<sad_plan> i have this love/hate relationshsip with this setup really
<sad_plan> night night
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<midfavila> dery tbf the esp32 is probably more capable than the dec machines unix was developed on. by a lot.
<midfavila> uconsole coming in clutch w/ my reform out of action rn
<midfavila> need to set up nntpit on here so i can doomscroll on my uconsole
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<EliSoli> is there anybody from very far from america? need help testing something related to networks
<EliSoli> i made a program, just need to make sure it works across countries
<EliSoli> would also be cool if it worked in more, complicated, countries like russia/china
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<midfavila> the scary GrEaT fIrEwAlL
<midfavila> also gm everyone
<sad_plan> good evening midfavila
<midfavila> hi :3
<midfavila> was making tea
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<sad_plan> what kinda of tea?
<sad_plan> or were you making tee >in? :p
<sad_plan> lol
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<midfavila> ???
<midfavila> i do not the understand sir
<midfavila> no, i'm having yorkshire gold black tea
<midfavila> it's my usual everyday drink
<midfavila> i have some nicer stuff from a local tea place but that's for the occassional treat
<midfavila> occasional even
<sad_plan> its a pun. related to ii. echo 'foo' | tee >int or something like that
<sad_plan> s/int/in/
<midfavila> o
<sad_plan> yes
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<evahasarrived> didn't know it was possible to be wrong about your tea choice but there we are
<evahasarrived> no other thoughts xx
<midfavila> what's wrong with yorkshire gold?
<midfavila> it's basic, but it hits all the major requirements
<midfavila> evahasarrived i am throwing down the gauntlet and demand a satisfactory answer
<midfavila> >:C
<midfavila> i will die defending the honour of taylors of harrogate
<evahasarrived> i just
<evahasarrived> what do you like about it/
<evahasarrived> ?