<dery>
if you're not allowing any "political" discussion, you're preserving the status quo, outside of allowing "anybody" to join
<dery>
(as midfavila pointed out)
<dery>
ever heard of the nazi bar story
<sad_plan>
not being political about something in general is not the same as denying anything political about it
<sad_plan>
ive heard penty, but hit me. maybe not this one
<dery>
didn't you just say that being "apolitical" is political?
<dery>
well it's simple, not sure if it's a story
<dery>
but like, imagine a bar
<dery>
and a nazi joins
<dery>
"yuck tf they doin here" "no worries, everybody can join!" but then the nazi person starts going all concerned of "random" stuff (dog whistle)
<dery>
soon enough they start calling friends of them
<dery>
and soon enough, it's a bar full of nazis
<dery>
sure, you can join, and you're "accepted", but you're surrounded by them, and maybe even start to get associated to them by other people
<dery>
and obviously most people start going away from that, especially target of nazis
<dery>
think of framework users getting put off by their weird political stances. It's a virtuous cycle that will end in only right-leaning-people using it
<dery>
yes i suck at explaining it but that's kinda the concept
<dery>
paradox of tolerance or something
<dery>
and even if you're not right-leaning, by using framework (in this hypotethical scenario) pepole will assume that you're right leaning
<dery>
also "nazi" here is an exaggeration, *mostly*. This applies to anything, especially the way more "subtler" political stances
<dery>
in the specific case of framework, their products were political from the start (right to repair, "openness" and so on), so this is even more dangerous IMO, compared to e.g. lenovo or apple
<dery>
it's always been a political brand, their users are going to be even more vocal and/or explicit of their ideas in the context of their buying options, both from a positive and negative stance
<dery>
thank you for coming to my ted talk
<sad_plan>
never said being apolitical is political. mid alluded to that though, with "everything is political"
<dery>
you just said "not being political about something in general is not the same as denying anything political about it"
<dery>
as in, not being political about something has always political aspects
<dery>
wdym
<sad_plan>
ah. classic. well I have a better explained one; in a tolerant society, can you tolerate intolerance? which kinda leans into what you say here. you accepted the nazis into the bar, now the bar is filled with nazis
<dery>
ye I think that's the same concept :D
<dery>
but like yea, "apoltiical" spaces IMO are the "tolerating intolerance" equivalente
<dery>
equivalent*
<dery>
(tired)
<sad_plan>
yep
<dery>
also dog whistles
<dery>
so like, no need to be explicitly "political"
<dery>
and good luck moderating *that*
<sad_plan>
re not being political about something; you can like something, or do something, which.. isnt technically political in of itself. like say you like vintage cars. cars can for sure be political, but just because you like vintage cars doesnt explicitly mean youre political about it. does that explain it better?
<dery>
I mean, that sounds somewhat reductive
<dery>
like, I get what you mean
<dery>
but it does not paint the full picture in this case
<dery>
framework for example, has a community, lots of money flowing in/out
<dery>
sponsors
<dery>
and so on
<dery>
there's a whole societal aspect that isn't being covered by "me like"
<dery>
yea ofc I like most ideas behind suckless tools despite (last I checked) the authors being politically fucked up.
<dery>
ofc I like minimalist software and try to "live" in my own healthy garden of communities and ecosystems despite idiots like, dunno how to say... the "manosphere of /g/" (to not make names, you probably know who I'm talking about)
<sad_plan>
framework done goofed when they shipped laptops to that.. nazi was it? the arch based distro with the stupid ever breaking wayland wm as its main wm. I dont recall. but people didnt like it one bit, and they tried to shove it under the rug to no avail lol
<dery>
that's fine, but didn't the Framework CEO himself show affiliation to that?
<dery>
like they keep talking about it
<dery>
and supporting it
<dery>
and so on
<sad_plan>
yeah some of the suckless devs does seemingly have some less popular politcal ideals, but I personally I havent really seen much of it
<sad_plan>
yeah I think they did
<dery>
that's the worrying part
<sad_plan>
was part of this *big tent* thing of theirs
<dery>
and until they make a statement a bout it they'll be supporting and affiliated with them
<dery>
and give it enough time and it will become more and more bleak
<dery>
people can fight only so long before feeling marginalized and/or supporting causes against *them*
<dery>
(talking about minorities and the usual targets of right-wing groups)
<sad_plan>
pretty sure they just hope that this just blows over, so they wont have to make a statement about it, defending their actions tbh lol
<sad_plan>
big tent or not, theres no way they can defend supporting nazis
<dery>
not if the ceo keeps explicitly, personally, supporting the thing
<sad_plan>
which is basically what it boils down to
<dery>
tbh, in this political climate...
<dery>
I don't think it's that hard to do
<dery>
where were they based in again?
<sad_plan>
isnt framework US based? lemme check
<dery>
yup
<dery>
and the right of repair is very weirdly compatible with rightwing nuts for some reason
<dery>
so they can EASILY go full nazi rn and find only benefits with that shit-ass government they got
<sad_plan>
yeah their hq is in the US. CA to be more precise
<dery>
that said, let's hope for the best
<sad_plan>
I dont really see how right-to-repair has anything to do with nazis, but ok. maybe thats just me
<sad_plan>
yeah
<dery>
I really dunno, but for some reason it clicks well. There's a whole subcategory of "computer person" that goes well with it in general
<dery>
I suppose... the "this is MY thing, get off my lawn" kind of logic?
<dery>
yknow, hoarding, bunkers and stuff
<dery>
there's a very famous right-wing tech-minimalist youtuber
<sad_plan>
I kinda want them to succeed, as their atleat doing *something*, and even desite that, they make modular, upgradable laptops, which is decent. even though their laptops is.. not really repairable, if you compare it to mnt's laptops. if framework went into the ground tomorrow, nobody could get a hold of any new parts
<dery>
also the "return to tradition, this is real computer not that woke computer over there"
<dery>
oh yes indeed, I really like their products and hope to see not only more of their products but a whole economy around that
<dery>
I mean they've always been on the premium end, especially with their new laptop
<sad_plan>
never heard of this youtuber
<dery>
I'd like to do names but this is still a public chat which is indexed on search engines
<dery>
let's just say... I'm happy for you
<dery>
also there are less politically explicit engagement farmers, which LOVE dunking on wayland and other modern software stacks, because, again, "return to tradition" or something
<dery>
(I really like the unix way of things myself don't get me wrong)
<dery>
and that kinda touches the issue too IMO
<sad_plan>
for sure. ive been wanting one of their laptops for quite some time, and Im a bit excited about them making new products. but yeah, their exensive. and now I kinda want a mnt reform next instead, because of the whole oshw stuff
<dery>
I like most of this stuff but sometimes I feel like I need to make it clear that I completely distance from the average user of the stuff I use
<dery>
heck even if you use hyprland you're going to be inevitably associated to certain people
<sad_plan>
I see, well im guessing I dont miss out on anything by not knowing who this youtuber is :p
<dery>
like, I get it, hyprland is pretty and all. But it's not only software that you like, it's a whole ecosystem, community, and governance
<dery>
yes you indeed aren't missing much
<dery>
istfg the times I've been sent "wayland is cooked! Protocol delayed or something" the reasoning behind was so fucking dumb. This caused *at least* once the locking of *at least* one wayland issue because random people spammed there
<dery>
after that video
<dery>
I'm saying at least because it happened in front of my eyes
<dery>
I'm sure it happened already
<dery>
sorry for the rant
<dery>
let's put the thing back on track
<dery>
so yeah to reiterate I think the main issue with what you're describing, imo, is that it's ignoring the whole societal aspect behind
<dery>
it
<dery>
you can like its stuff "apolitically" but remember that you're in a society and you're interacting with this stuff by giving money to a company that is supporting bad people. Other folks one day might assume the same about you (think tesla drivers) and that you don't have to necessarily give money to that specific company to have an interest
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<dery>
hope I didn't repeat myself too much
<dery>
do you agree?
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<sad_plan>
yeah I agree. this is called voting with your wallet. by purchasing a framework laptop in this case, youre inadvertly supporting this scumbag in the process. hypthetically anyhow. its more indrect, but people will asociate the framework laptop with this other scumbag, and then make you the bad guy afterwards. desipte maybe you just liked the product itself, regardless of the politics behind it
<kris_>
just edited a youtube video for my main channel for the first time in fucking forever
<kris_>
i might have to redo my voiceover, some people are complaining about how close i am to my mic
<kris_>
if you have like 422M of bandwidth to waste
<kris_>
it will stream in a browser
<kris_>
just curious about input and whether or not i should redo that
<sad_plan>
ill take a peek
<sad_plan>
kris_: hm, im not very picky about this initially at all, unless the audio is utterly terrible. which isnt the case here. but to answer your concern, maaybe theres some of this in the early part of the video?
<kris_>
idk if i think it's a big deal
<kris_>
personally
<kris_>
just some people i shared this with pointed out it sounds like i'm wayyy too close to my mic
<kris_>
which generally i do on purpose as a stylistic choice but they're complaining about it
<sad_plan>
I cant say im in any way bothered by the audio here. I liked the voiceover in of itself. you sound calm. while also not taking yourself too seriously, by joking about stuff. overall, it fits the tone of the video imo
<kris_>
i think it's better than how it used to be with my videos
<kris_>
i used to get kinda geeked out on caffeine and whatnot before recording
<kris_>
this, on the other hand, is recording while stoned
<kris_>
not that a substance is required it's just a difference in what i'm on at the time (i'm honestly always on something)
<kris_>
this is the first one i've made in ~2.5 years so
<sad_plan>
lol ok. despite jokes here, you still keep yourself on track. overall this makes the video more enjoyable imo, and sets the tone to be more light. more fun. I dunno
<kris_>
other than little shitposts i make regularly that i absolutely cannot put on my main channel
<sad_plan>
I see
<kris_>
ok well tyvm it's not supposed to be a super heavy video
<kris_>
next im probably going to do the freebsd on the ps3 thing
<kris_>
and see how many players itll support when running a minecraft 1.8.9 server if i can get a good amount of my friends to connect
<kris_>
now i just need to find my gimp templates
<sad_plan>
yw
<kris_>
i used to treat making stuff like this as "someone will see this and give me a job because linux nerd"
<kris_>
now i'm kinda just vibing with it i guess
<sad_plan>
I think thats a better approach. doing it because you like it
<kris_>
im just guessing he doesnt use kiss anymore
<dery>
kris_: first-minute impression, voiceover sounds fine
<kris_>
:salute:
<dery>
also holy moly voice and HANDS reveal?!!?!?
<kris_>
im not exactly private about what i look/sound like
<dery>
never seen/heard you before
<kris_>
yeah thinking about it that's probably the first time ive sent something like that in here
<sad_plan>
i think so. ive seen your hand before iirc. i think you inluded it recently when you sent an image about something regarding the ps3
<dery>
re
<dery>
really nice video kris_
<dery>
I enjoyed
<dery>
also why is the modchip that far away
<dery>
long cables bad
<kris_>
dery: only place i could put it where i wouldnt have to cut more stuff out of the ps3 than i already had
<kris_>
it kinda just fit there
<dery>
aight
<kris_>
so far it's been incredibly reliable, i've had 1 failed boot
<kris_>
which is much less than most other people
<dery>
oh that's great to know
<kris_>
meaning my soldering is on point apparently
<dery>
oh indeed
<dery>
you did a very nice job, all in all
<dery>
you said it was your first time doing advanced soldering?
<kris_>
yeah
<dery>
cause despite the lack of flux things looked pretty nice
<dery>
great job
<kris_>
it took like several hours doing it over and over
<kris_>
for the best though, now that i've got a bit of practice in i'm pretty comfortable
<dery>
nice
<dery>
obvious recommendation, mess around with a dead motherboard
<dery>
not necessarily of a ps3 ofc
<kris_>
i do have two other ps3s i could have practiced on
<kris_>
ones i care about much less
<dery>
like, had to repair a 360 and took me hours to figure out a reliable setup with the crappy tools I have
<dery>
how's the pinecil?
<dery>
would you recommend?
<kris_>
it kicks ass
<dery>
:eyes:
<kris_>
the t480 charger i used was able to run it up to 450c happily as well
<kris_>
i think i paid like 35 usd for it
<dery>
my cheapass amazon soldering iron has the crappiest heat capacity
<kris_>
450c was needed for that because the ps3 motherboards grounding plane notoriously just eats heat
<dery>
I had to desolder a cap. MAN I had to like dual wield the crappy soldering iron and my random hot air station
<dery>
barely made it
<dery>
ye had the same issue
<kris_>
did you just have one of those soldering irons that plug directly into the wall
<dery>
some people would advise against that but at the same time... ground is a mess and it will lower substantially the actual temperature as the iron tries its best to compensate
<dery>
kris_: yes
<kris_>
lol im so sorry, i had one of those right before i got my pinecil
<dery>
it had a remote thing though
<kris_>
they're horrible
<dery>
like it's temperature controlled
<dery>
at the very least
<kris_>
oh you're big balling then
<kris_>
mine didnt have temp controls, it was just on or off
<dery>
oh those are the worst
<dery>
they WILL kick pads off
<dery>
because they will run at a bajillion degrees
<kris_>
i only used it once and then binned it
<dery>
no worries that's fine, it happens
<kris_>
i have this old laptop that no longer works *because* of that iron
<dery>
apparently I soldered for *years* with plumbling flux
<dery>
and wondered why my stuff would stop working after a while, if it even did
<kris_>
i'm kinda tempted to libreboot my thinkpad since i'm on summer break right now so it's not something i'm using every day
<kris_>
i dont *think* ill need to solder anything for that though
<dery>
also disclaimer pls double-check what I say cause im dumb
<dery>
as i said
<kris_>
i should have cleaned it up anyway
<dery>
aight aight
<dery>
yea spi flashers come with clips
<kris_>
yeah apparently flux is corrosive
<kris_>
Convenient!
<dery>
although I heard that most of the cheap ones are 5v, while *most* bios chips want 3.3
<dery>
it will probably work but it will degrade the thing
<dery>
there's a mod
<dery>
I think that libreboot talks about it
<kris_>
idk leah recommends specifically a pi pico
<dery>
kris_: yea that's how flux works :P
<kris_>
says bios flashers are almost always shit
<dery>
it removes the oxide layer
<dery>
some fluxes are heat-activated I think, some alway work
<dery>
hence why fucking plumbing flux messed my stuff all the time
<dery>
("why the fuck is electronics so hard")
<kris_>
ill just get at it with a brush and some isopropyl alcohol
<kris_>
electronics are hard
<dery>
I mean, yea
<dery>
but I failed the dumbest stuff
<dery>
or it worked for one week
<dery>
like, in middle school
<dery>
I put a headphone jack on my cheapass piano keyboard (we had music class)
<dery>
cheap cheap cheap
<dery>
and it worked for like, a few weeks, I think?
<dery>
it slowly went "bzbzbzbzbzbzzb"
<dery>
I mean, I chose random ass components (including a headphone port replacement for a phone lmao), maybe the transistor I chose was getting the wrongest voltage possible but I think it was mainly the flux
<kris_>
hard telling probably
<kris_>
or maybe not
<dery>
who knows
<kris_>
i figure corrosion would be very visible
<dery>
not sure tbh. It's mostly oxidation I think
<dery>
also apparently something called dendrites
<dery>
I found this out a few years ago when I tried doing some fine-pitch soldering on a homemade pcb
<dery>
and it made sparks from like, the component's pin to the pad it was on
<dery>
and everything was shorted to hell
<dery>
the only explanation I found online was that contamination and voltage can cause copper to make small hair like things that short stuff
<dery>
I've switched to goot rework flux since and didn't have any sort of issue sooooooooooo
<dery>
I'm pretty sure that in one way or the other i messed everything up SUBSTANTIALLY
<dery>
From my limited point of view, I think that electronics are considered harder than most things because, outside of its natural complexity, the fact that you have to pay for all the stuff you use makes it very hard to get into it without spending, well, a lot
<dery>
that's how people get cheapass components and whatnot (what I had for a long time and sort of still have) and get some basic thing super wrong (like the soldering iron) because of rightfully cost concerns
<dery>
because fr when a cheap perf-board falls apart on your non-temperature-controlled soldering iron with plumbing flux (which in hindsight, lmao), it's somewhat demotivating
<dery>
(did I say that I really like this stuff)
<dery>
I could go on but I've already made a huge wall of tet
<dery>
tet
<dery>
AAA
<dery>
text
<kris_>
nah i get it
<kris_>
i didnt know plumbing flux was even a thing honestly
<sad_plan>
I just built an appimage for luakit, just to test, and it worked.
<midfavila>
dery: sad_plan: a better way to phrase it is that if you have a table of nine people and one of them is a nazi, you have a table with ten nazis sitting there
<sad_plan>
thats also one way to put it mid. but yeah, thats not unreasonable
<midfavila>
s/table of nine/table of ten/
<midfavila>
today has been a lot holy fuck
<midfavila>
brain't
<kris_>
no way its Mid
<midfavila>
it me
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<kris_>
it you
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<dery>
midfavila: nice
<dery>
as in, nice way
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<sad_plan>
omg, hilarious. I checked out the game called megabonk on steamreap, and under system requirements; processor: potato, Graphics: no