<midfavila>
have a pretty decent little set of shell routines here for working with pm ngl
<midfavila>
i mean they're super clunky atm
<midfavila>
but i do at least have a recursive dependency resolver and automated builds
<midfavila>
i'm trying to stick to the KISS format so my packages will be suitable for use by those interested
<sad_plan>
did you ever patch pm to not use libarchive though? I know you mentioned it a while back
<midfavila>
nah
<midfavila>
i think i'm going to write a replacement for pm in shell
<midfavila>
pm does even less than kiss so it shouldn't be hard
<sad_plan>
I should work more on my rc package manager though
<sad_plan>
yeah probably
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<dery>
midfavila: I was actually looking into sandboxing kiss externally, through a wrapper of sorts
<dery>
working on that like, once in a blue moon tho, not because it's hard, but because I unironically have a crapton of stuff to do
<kris_>
helo dairy
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<midfavila>
alright lads
<midfavila>
we've done it
<midfavila>
we've gotten to the point where my shitbox can finally bootstrap itself to a somewhat usable state
<midfavila>
we have Xfbdev
<midfavila>
i repeat, we have Xfbdev
<kris_>
claude, make me a distro
<midfavila>
no
<midfavila>
:gun:
<midfavila>
this is a clanker-free zone
<midfavila>
we do NOT tolerate cog-suckers here kris_
<kris_>
im so undecided on what i actually want out of a distro
<kris_>
maybe nothing
<kris_>
guix is in theory very cool and i like that the system is entirely foss
<kris_>
but it's also like the antithesis of the type of software i usually use
<midfavila>
when will you convert to kiss
<kris_>
probably when void does something naughty
<kris_>
mid have you ever used s6
<kris_>
it seems kinda good actually
<kris_>
ive not really looked into it much until last night because nothing uses it
<sad_plan>
dery: cant you use something like boublewrap when running kiss? or what did you use to sandbox it? not that I really care about sandboxing in general, but im kinda curious
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<dery>
kris_: I've read lots about s6, sounds really cool
<dery>
I might unironically just use its process supervisor in some project of mine instead of reimplementing it lol
<dery>
sad_plan: yes I kinda do that, although the annoying part is knowing what to expose, how to expose it and a sane "base" environment
<dery>
bubblewrap ins't magic, and one of my requirements is that it stops random dependencies getting stuck in packages at random times, maybe even breaking them
<dery>
ilt: that actually sounds surprisingly... normal. For one second I was expecting bad vibes there, but it really just feels like people wanting really portable wayland with their own opinionated compositor, which is perfectly fine
<dery>
Nice seeing the "absolute simplest" audience growing, I like to see variety in the ecosystem
<dery>
> project of dérive linux
<dery>
oh that explains it
<kris_>
dery: seems pretty nice, it's also already packaged on kiss
<dery>
ye
<dery>
I think dylan worked with it in mind
<dery>
and I think even planned to switch to it by default
<dery>
the path should be already plenty beaten, also s6 is surpsrisingly compatible with our stack already (mdevd), so I think it's really a matter of playing with it
<dery>
no idea about how to translate service definitions, or even what format it actually uses
<kris_>
it seems to just run scripts similar to runit
<kris_>
so
<kris_>
i think it would be a situation of *mostly* just pulling services from void
<dery>
btw dérive and wlfiy really remind me of 9plan's website
<dery>
oh why do they have their own 4chan clone... I don't know how to interpret that
<kris_>
little bit to be expected
<kris_>
i feel like
<dery>
sorry 9front website
<dery>
not 9plan
<dery>
dunno there's a thin layer of irony but a very ambiguous one
<rfaa>
i use s6 :) have some packaged scripts in my repo on github.com/rfaa-se/kisslinux/s6-scripts
<dery>
that's very cool!
<kris_>
oh sweet
<rfaa>
stole most of them tho
<dery>
that's fine
<dery>
so packages require their new service definitions am I understanding correctly?
<rfaa>
yeah pretty much
<dery>
also the whole work of `setup` sounds somewhat redundant
<dery>
IIRC dylan's generic init system was supposed to take care of that
<rfaa>
took a little while to figure it out
<rfaa>
think the author of s6 has been working a bit on the new frontend as well, haven't tried it yet tho
<rfaa>
oh well, food time
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<midfavila>
kris_ i don't use service management
<midfavila>
i just use simple slackware-style scripts if i really need to have service management
<midfavila>
dery "dylan worked with in mind" re: wayland?
<midfavila>
fwiw the original kiss linux site explicitly marks wayland as verboten
<midfavila>
"this software will never be introduced into the repositories, because it opens the floodgates for software that nonoptionally depends on it" or whatever
<midfavila>
sysd, pulse, wayland, etc among others, iirc
<midfavila>
i also find it funny that that wayland.fyi website brags about wayland not being network transparent "because it's not 1985" as if that's an improvement lmao
<midfavila>
i would still prefer something like mgr...
* midfavila
sighs wistfully...
<midfavila>
mgr has its own issues, but i love that it's a *unix* windowing environment, and doesn't try to be anything else. it really takes the concept of a terminal to its absolute logical conclusion
<midfavila>
it's like uhhhhhh
<midfavila>
those blit terminals that unix system 8 or whatever used
<midfavila>
a cleaned-up and enhanced twin(1) would also be perfectly suitable
<midfavila>
twin was my primary window environment for a while in high school and it was surprisingly comfy, although only being able to address space using character cells made it somewhat limited
<midfavila>
but run it on a framebuffer and give it some (very) basic graphical capabilities... that would be something special...
<midfavila>
i came across a book that discusses the design of a windowing system using curses, i'll have to try and buy a copy. it doesn't seem to be available anywhere online.
<midfavila>
i also need to look into the text widgets that finch used before it seems to have been dropped... they're based on glib, which sucks, but the idea is nice...
<midfavila>
so many ideas, so little time
<dery>
midfavila re "wayland?" no, s6
<dery>
i've seen screens and read stuff about him experimenting with it and remember "init system independence" being one of the main requirements of the kiss system scripts
<midfavila>
oh, yeah, fair
<midfavila>
i mean maybe he'll drop back in
<midfavila>
i'm sure you can ask or maybe send him an email