#osdev on 2026-04-12 — irc logs at libera.catirclogs.org

2021-05-23 01:57 klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books

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03:21 <zid> https://isolveproblems.substack.com/p/how-microsoft-vaporized-a-trillion

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16:21 <kof673> manual markup for dependencies of code https://x0.at/Jvbz.txt i already had this "scdep" format, this just adds ability to pragma files ...auto-generated would be better ;D

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16:25 <kof673> one obvious use case, is a script could note file.c includes file2.h or file3.c and compare dates of those with an object file, for make-like dependency checking whether an object needs rebuilt or not but you need to preprocess to do so properly, since they might be conditional

16:27 <kof673> compilers are probably supposed to ignore any #pragma they don't recognize, but i quote just so maybe it avoids problems ;D

16:30 <kof673> maybe ctags or something can do most or all of those and i just need to translate ;D

16:34 <kof673> manual is bad, but putting it right next to the code, hopefully avoids things getting out of sync if that code is ever updated, they hopefully update the pragma right next to it

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20:07 <Ermine> i've figured out why bluetoothd crashed for me

20:08 <Ermine> once again it's glib

20:08 <Ermine> bool is 1 byte, and gboolean is 4 bytes

20:09 <Ermine> so when its option parser writes to bool, it corrupts stuff next to it

20:14 <heat> loller moment!

20:14 <zid> see I knew bool was a stupid type

20:15 <heat> reminds me, there's something really stupid about

20:15 <heat> int var : 1;

20:15 <zid> is that javascript

20:15 <heat> no, C

20:15 <heat> like struct S { int something : 1;};

20:15 <zid> oh you mean int var :1

20:16 <heat> doing s->something = 1; is IIRC technically UB because the type doesn't have a way to represent it

20:16 <heat> at least not ambiguously

20:18 <nikolar> how

20:19 <nikolar> it can be 0 or 1

20:19 <heat> it can also be -1

20:19 <nikolar> right

20:19 <heat> the representation for -1 and 1 are "the same", aka you can't represent either one

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20:19 <nikolar> right idk

20:20 <nikolar> you shouldn't use bitfields anyway

20:20 <heat> meh, bitfields are useful

20:20 <heat> when you don't care about the specific layout nor atomicity

20:20 <bobbin> they're useful for ugly hardware stuff

20:20 <heat> oh yeah that's exactly where I would not use them

20:20 <bobbin> noooo :(

20:20 <nikolar> that's exactly where you can't rely on anything

20:21 <nikolar> because the exact layout is not specified

20:21 <nikolar> nor are the update semantics

20:21 <heat> but for, like, a bool? yeah super handy

20:22 <nikolar> how though :P

20:22 <nikolar> when it's ub :P

20:22 <zid> to be fair, you know what compiler you're using

20:22 <zid> when you're embed

20:22 <bobbin> int is the ub case

20:22 <nikolar> that was a joke

20:22 <zid> just make it mandatory that bitfield members are unsigned and that you test whether they go forwards or backwards and they're perfectly usable

20:23 <nikolar> until something changes in the next version

20:23 <zid> that won't change

20:23 <nikolar> can you guarantee that

20:23 <zid> or if it does, it will be a HUGE BREAKING CHANGE thing like -fcommon

20:23 <nikolar> not really

20:24 <zid> yes really

20:24 <heat> https://godbolt.org/z/vjernncjf there lol

20:24 <bobbin> wow you can't use bitfields to widen a type

20:24 <zid> to be fair, int has 1 sign bit

20:24 <zid> so you have.. 0 value bits left

20:24 <nikolar> imagine using bool

20:24 <heat> yep

20:25 <zid> the fcommon change was fun

20:25 <zid> people actually talked in #gcc for a couple of weeks

20:26 <heat> > until something changes in the next version

20:26 <zid> <big wall of text about a linker issue> me: "Did you try -fno-common"

20:26 <heat> it cannot change, it's part of the ABI

20:27 <nikolar> heat: bitfields specifically aren't iirc

20:27 <nikolar> so you know

20:27 <nikolar> ymmv

20:28 <heat> https://usercontent.irccloud-cdn.com/file/3rRibkgt/image.png

20:28 <zid> how many sign bits does nullptr_t have

20:28 <heat> https://refspecs.linuxbase.org/elf/x86_64-abi-0.99.pdf page 15

20:29 <nikolar> page 15?

20:29 <nikolar> zid: trick question

20:29 <nikolar> it's not real and doesn't exist

20:29 <zid> correct answer

20:39 <zid> It has been -32768 days since my last integer overflow error, woo!

20:39 <nikolar> nice

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20:41 <zid> and 1.401298464324817070923730E-45 seconds since my last floating point error

20:41 <bobbin> >not using the extra space to encode -0

20:41 <bobbin> ngmi

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20:45 * kof673 env CFLAGS='-Os -pipe -march=i486 -mcpu=i486' CPPFLAGS='-I/mnt/local/installed/openssl-3.6.2/include' LDFLAGS='-L/mnt/local/installed/openssl-3.6.2/lib' ./configure --prefix=/mnt/local/installed/wget2-2.2.1 --with-ssl=openssl

20:45 <kof673> > checking for -I/mnt/local/installed/openssl-3.6.2/include option for large files... -D_FILE_OFFSET_BITS=64

20:45 <kof673> i think that's a configure bug in wget ;D

20:45 <kof673> just bad output perhaps

20:48 <zid> How many pulls are we all doing for nishino flower at 11pm?

20:49 <heat> linux 7.0 is coming out in an hour or so

20:49 <heat> what feature are you guys looking for

20:49 <zid> rust 1.95 prep ofc

20:50 <kof673> i think all my modern systems will be android...and then just run qemu with old linux / whatever else for tons of cross-compilers

20:50 <kof673> i'm sure i will use linux 7.0...10 years from now ;D

20:50 <zid> That's a joke ofc

20:50 <zid> the real shit is SMT hot-plug support for loooongarch

20:51 <bobbin> i should switch to dkms

20:51 <zid> heat: I answered you, so, how many pulls?

20:51 <heat> wdym

20:52 <zid> NISHINO FLOWER

20:52 <zid> HOW MANY PULLS?

20:52 <heat> i don't know what that is

20:52 <zid> who

20:52 <zid> who that is

20:52 <zid> https://gametora.com/umamusume/characters/105101-nishino-flower

20:52 <heat> > 135 cm

20:52 <heat> a child?

20:52 <zid> she's TINY

20:53 <zid> that's why I am pulling for her mainly

20:53 <heat> yeah short kings stand up but also short queens

20:53 <zid> when does sweep tosho come

20:54 <bobbin> did zid watch the umamusume anime

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20:54 <zid> MAY 27th

20:54 <zid> for sweep tosho

21:02 <nikolar> he watched all the uma musume animes

21:07 <Ermine> Actually that bug is fixed for several months now and it has been released

21:19 <Arsen> nikolar: no, a one bit int is either 0 or -1, it can't be 1, on twos complement machines

21:19 <Arsen> on ones complement machines, it's either 0 or -0

21:20 <nikolar> right

21:20 <Arsen> in neither case can it be 1 though

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21:21 <Arsen> bitfields are fine for compressing s bunch of bools into s byte where the exact layout isn't significant and it can mean lower memory usage

21:21 <Arsen> ditto for unsigned

21:21 <Arsen> not much else tho

21:21 <Arsen> the layout is extremely unreliable (in the sense that it's just fully ID)

21:35 <heat> structs are also ID

21:36 <heat> i don't think anything in C requires struct S {int a; int b;} to not order the fields

21:36 <heat> reorder I mean

21:36 <zid> it does

21:36 <zid> but that's like, the only requirement, lol

21:36 <zid> gigabyte of padding inbetween and 17 sign bits very acceptable!

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21:44 <zid> 16 minutes until I spend all money on nishino, don't get her, kill myself

21:44 <heat> LINUX SEVEN DOT OH WOOOOOOOOOO

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21:59 <Arsen> yeah those are required to be ordered by the rules about compatibility and leading members or whatever

22:00 <zid> yea if nothing else, the very very first member MUST be first

22:00 <zid> but I think it also applies to the others too

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