<discocaml>
<cod1r> sometimes, i doom scroll ocaml related links and just learn about a new ocaml github org
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<rustyne>
what do you mean by: “keep track of the orgs”? they just exist to do whatever they do...
<discocaml>
<cod1r> I guess im just wondering why it isn't more organized into fewer orgs
<discocaml>
<cod1r> makes it harder for a newer person to understand the developments happening in the ocaml space
<discocaml>
<cod1r> maybe it's just feels weird only to me...
<discocaml>
<cod1r> i guess i could open a PR in the ocaml-org repo for this stuff...
<discocaml>
<cod1r> maybe it just feels weird only to me...
<discocaml>
<cod1r> i guess i could open a PR in the ocaml.org repo for this stuff...
<discocaml>
<cod1r> flambda could be it's own repo under the ocaml org for example. ocaml-dune as well but 🤷♂️
<discocaml>
<cod1r> ok actually...ocamlverse.net has a lot of it...; AND i just learned the ocamlverse is it's own org too 🤣
<discocaml>
<cod1r> add that to the list
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<rustyne>
github orgs are an access control mechanism, not an ecosystem discovery one; discuss (or here, in a limited way) seems the place to go for the info you’re looking for
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<discocaml>
<youngkhalid> just out of curiosity what is this bot connected to ?
<companion_cube>
IRC
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<Guest51>
`print_endline "Hello World!"`
<discocaml>
<youngkhalid> I know, saw the bot's description, but I meant where it’s actually hosted (like which server..etc). , IRC is a protocol. Figured it out already : ) !
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<discocaml>
<youngkhalid> The libera chat UI is awesome ahah, simple stuff feelt like visiting a 2005 website, love it !
<companion_cube>
oh yeah it's libera chat
<companion_cube>
sorry :)
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<noze`>
I just tried to create an opam switch with ocaml-variants.4.14.1+options,ocaml-option-flambda but compilation failed
<noze`>
is that expected?
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<noze`>
(on an updated arch linux x86_64 laptop)
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<octachron>
This is not expected but not utterly suprising. What is the error message? Also 4.14.1 is superseded by 4.14.2.
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<noze`>
I get the following when opam runs make:
<noze`>
# caml/prims.h:33:23: error: too many arguments to function ‘(value (*)(void))*(caml_prim_table.contents + (sizetype)((long unsigned int)*pc * 8))’; expected 0, have 2
<noze`>
(there's more output but I'd have to put that into a pastebin somewhere)
<octachron>
That looks like gcc (or clang) breaking backward compatibility, the simplest fix might be to switch to at least 4.14.2
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<discocaml>
<youngkhalid> Yo guys, I have a quick question. In my side projects to-do list I have to implement a DSL. I'm deciding between implementing everything from scratch or use Menhir (parser generator)
<discocaml>
<youngkhalid> I kinda like Menhir but I saw some people saying that it has its cons too and "it suits more for toy projects" (I want to do the things right, but If I can get the same thing using Menhir, I'd rather do that). Any advices ?
<discocaml>
<octachron> The OCaml compiler is using Menhir for parsing.
<discocaml>
<contificate> Using menhir effectively, like using any LR parser generator, requires you understand the underlying principles of LR parsing (and parser generation).
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<discocaml>
<youngkhalid> Wow ! didn't know that !
<discocaml>
<contificate> A lot of people begin using Menhir by copying and pasting and then their intuition falls over when they try to do something themselves or retrofit a grammatical rule
<discocaml>
<youngkhalid> Yes, like everything I guess xD. Just like when coding with any language, you have to understand how it works 😅 . I'm ready to take the challenge of learning about Menhir.
<discocaml>
<contificate> Yes, but you don't get very good tools for working with the problems
<discocaml>
<contificate> you get things invented for use with yacc to parse arithmetic only, in effect (can find a citation for this claim, from Aho and author of yacc, don't have it to hand)
<discocaml>
<contificate> don't get me wrong, I was obsessed with LR parsing, but it's like.. for lots of practical use cases, it's better to teach Pratt parsing and normal recursive descent
<discocaml>
<contificate> rather than explain "yeah yeah you'll need `%prec` here 😏 "
<discocaml>
<youngkhalid> I see I see, so basically it's too much power to be playing around ?
<discocaml>
<contificate> You can imagine it as being a somewhat opaque process that, even if you understand the process fully, you still have to reason at a tedious level to resolve grammatical problems - at scale, it's very tedious.
<discocaml>
<contificate> There's an art to designing grammars for LR parsing.
<discocaml>
<contificate> It's mentioned that OCaml uses an LR parser generator but.. the original view is rather negative
<discocaml>
<youngkhalid> I think the main advantage is that you can get straight to the point, focus more on your language design, and have something more robust as these people already solved some problems you don't have to solve again
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<discocaml>
<youngkhalid> I mean you always can learn more by lmplementing it from the ground up
<discocaml>
<youngkhalid> what if it's a small language (dsl), isn't that complexity reduced by a lot ?
<discocaml>
<contificate> you may still prefer to just write a handwritten parser, honestly
<discocaml>
<contificate> it doesn't take much time and is more natural to maintain
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<discocaml>
<contificate> LR parsers are useful in many domains but for certain things, grammatically, I just know they're gonna cause problems and require tedious factorings to work
<discocaml>
<contificate> application via juxtaposition is rather problematic, for example
<discocaml>
<contificate> you may naively think `expr -> expr expr` is a valid production for application in an ML-like language, it is not
<discocaml>
<contificate> people literally copy and paste the "simple" factoring from project to project
<discocaml>
<yawaramin> i find Angstrom to be the easiest in practice for whipping up a parser
<discocaml>
<contificate> and every SML compiler uses an LR parser generator and basically copies the grammar someone else wrote
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<discocaml>
<deepspacejohn> I think quite a lot of projects (including OCaml!) use Menhir, so it's not a bad idea to learn it. Of course, it's a tool with pros and cons, like anything.
<discocaml>
<contificate> menhir is definitely the best LR parser generator I know of, in terms of features and usability - I couldn't get anywhere with yacc/bison until I learned menhir and went back to yacc/bison like "this is like menhir, but much more tedious"
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<discocaml>
<deepspacejohn> Menhir's ability to find conflicts and manage error messages is nice, IMO. I admittedly haven't used other parser-generators with similar features to compare it though.
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<discocaml>
<youngkhalid> Well , thanks everybody 🙂 , here's a little poll that can help me see more clearly
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<discocaml>
<contificate> you are missing the "both" option
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<discocaml>
<contificate> can come to your own conclusions
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