michaelni changed the topic of #ffmpeg-devel to: Welcome to the FFmpeg development channel | Questions about using FFmpeg or developing with libav* libs should be asked in #ffmpeg | This channel is publicly logged | FFmpeg 7.1.1 has been released! | Please read ffmpeg.org/developer.html#Code-of-conduct
<thardin>
if chris sawyer could write rollercoaster tycoon in assembly then surely we could write a browser in assembly as well
<thardin>
in fact I think such a thing even exists for one of those floppy disk distros. I recall there being one that's written entirely in assembly
<thardin>
and it has network support
<kasper93>
probably no js support, you wouldn't pass anime girl check
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<thardin>
you can probably make a working but not fast js implementation in asm
<thardin>
anyway I feel the discussions the last year or so have clearly revealed a need to nail down what is within scope for this project. but such work also requires that enough developers understand that libre multimedia is more than just ffmpeg
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<thardin>
I sometimes wonder what we could be building if we didn't waste time reimplementing things
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<kierank>
thardin: not gonna happen
<kierank>
There is a loud subsection that wants anything
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<fflogger>
[editedticket] atayeem: Ticket #11640 ([avfilter] Specific combination of timeclamp, fps, and count on showcqt causing crash) updated https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/11640#comment:1
<softworkz>
back home, here are some answers to questions that came up:
<softworkz>
kasper93: "does softworkz guy use AI to generate this code and emails?" <= I've sent 2 or 3 AI generated emails and they were marked as such. There was no AI in volved in any other message. For code: the only AI generated "code" that I've submitted was the sed command (and comments) in common.mak plus the AVDict2 experiment (where it was stated as such). Anyway, large parts of the code that I'm submitting were written long before AI was even a
<softworkz>
jamrial: "why am i still seeing "rm fftools/resources/graph.html.gz fftools/resources/graph.css.min.gz fftools/resources/graph.css.min" at the end of compilation?" "i thought there were like two different patchsets that fixed this?" <= I won't push mine without review(s). Patchset: https://patchwork.ffmpeg.org/project/ffmpeg/list/?series=14814
<softworkz>
BtbN: "Softworks like it this way for some reason, so argued a lot with all of them" <= it's how make is supposed to work - no more, no less. But for god's sake, if people think it's better to go the "workaround route" via the .SECONDARY target, then go for it. I won't object anymore if that will make everybody happy.
<softworkz>
.
<softworkz>
btw, I like some of the killer-feature/browser jokes :-)
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<compnn>
thardin: re ffmpeg future. no one has a clue. everyone wants their pork project. some people just say accept everything (because why argue), and others want to control what gets in and gets deleted
<compnn>
i think j-b said he wants to move game codecs into its own dir in libavcodec or so? too many files to scroll ? its not deleting anything. seems reasonable enough
<wbs>
haasn: so even if this is a compiler fix, whether it's a bug or a language extension is a bit hazy - if possible it's probably best to not rely on it (e.g. memset the whole struct or something else if that makes it work with earlier compilers too)
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<thardin>
compnn: more structure in the tree sounds like a decent idea
<thardin>
lavfi also. separate audio and video filters pls
<thardin>
kierank: sadly
<thardin>
lots of devs with junior mindset
<TheVibeCoder>
thardin is nobel winner
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<cone-928>
ffmpeg Peter Ross master:93368029e36d: avcodec/g728_template: do_hybrid_window() template
<cone-928>
ffmpeg Peter Ross master:a0b9d61fafe6: avcodec/g728_template: make hist parameter constant
<cone-928>
ffmpeg Peter Ross master:a107340035d9: avcodec/g728dec: G.728 decoder
<cone-928>
ffmpeg Peter Ross master:a3c900a0c489: avcodec/lpc_functions: compute_lpc_coefs: add starting lpc order and err cache parameters
<cone-928>
ffmpeg Peter Ross master:52f62468aa1b: avformat/g728dec: raw G.728 demuxer
<cone-928>
ffmpeg Peter Ross master:dee4edfa63dd: avformat/riff: G.728 muxing and demuxing
<cone-928>
ffmpeg Peter Ross master:5a8c2b2b506c: avformat/aiff: G.728 muxing and demuxing
<cone-928>
ffmpeg Peter Ross master:e6298e075943: avformat/rtp: G.728 muxing and demuxing
<thardin>
no, just sysiphus pushing his boulder up the ffhill
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<softworkz>
kasper93: The graphprint feature on the other hand is something very different. It is a built-in FFmpeg output format, while the others are applications of their own. The focus for the graphprint feature is on AVAILABILITY - i.e. that everybody can use it instantly without installation of pre-requisites or additional applications. It's meant to provide a quick and useful view for learning FFmpeg and also for understanding how FFmpeg sees and
<softworkz>
executes complex command lines and for viewing the outcomes of filter format negotiation. I see no competition with lavfi-preview at all. Both are very useful but in different ways.
<TheVibeCoder>
ban softworkz
<softworkz>
why?
<TheVibeCoder>
u evil
<softworkz>
yea, that's true :-)
<softworkz>
pleased to me you - hope you guess my name....
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<llyyr>
how can the focus be on availability if it requires you to have a browser? lol
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<psykose>
browsers are widely available
<TheVibeCoder>
yea, browswer are everywhere
<psykose>
even if it hard required chromium it would be more accessible than a random program :-)
<psykose>
people hate hearing it but it's true
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<haasn>
Did FATE die? It's not showing my series from 2025-06-22
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<haasn>
wbs: that's a bit odd
<haasn>
the only thing that strikes me as relevant is the zero init behavior on unions
<haasn>
but we usually zero init as = {0}
<haasn>
with the union not being the first field here
<wbs>
haasn: well this change still applies here I think; previously it only zero initalized the first member of a union, and considered the rest of the union storage as uninitialized, which the optimizer then can make other assumptions based on
<haasn>
but if I understand the wording correctly then it still applies here; the union field is implicitly zero-initialized which makes clang only initialize the first field explicitly
<haasn>
yeah
<haasn>
so to avoid it, the best thing we could do is to ensure that the first field covers the full size of the union
<haasn>
or else, just try and avoid implicitly zero-initializing unions
<wbs>
yeah, pretty much
<haasn>
(the former is easily asserted with a sizeof(field) == sizeof(field.first))
<haasn>
I'm leaning towards the former as a solution that avoids accidental errors
<wbs>
clearly a thing where I'd consider it mostly a bug in the earlier versions, but a kinda annoying one, and clang <= 19 is in quite widespread use, so it's not really possible to just flat out refuse to support that either
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<nevcairiel>
with all the strict typing everyone invokes everywhere, unions always kinda puzzled me
<nevcairiel>
here have this block of memory that can be any of these things, and we carry no information what it is
<wbs>
another funny thing also is that unions are specified differently for C++; in C it's valid to e.g. use a union to get the bit representation of a float, but in C++ that's invalid
<pross>
another reason to hate c++
<wbs>
(in C++, unions only have one "active member" at a time, so it's more of a shared storage utility, not usable for reinterpreting things)
<BtbN>
softworkz: my only real concern is that it looks ugly. And I also only think of it as a cosmetic problem, so don't care all too much.
<BtbN>
Only actual potential issue would be bug reports from people thinking it's unintended cause it looks "off"
<BtbN>
If styling that line into our usual "RM ..." would be possible, that'd solve that at least
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<softworkz>
BtbN: I've been digging through related conversations from the past 20 years at the side of Gnu make development (ML archives and bug tracker) and the RM output came up 3 or 4 times. The final answer from Paul Smith (seemingly the main dev) about that RM output was something like: "you can take the source code and change it..."
<BtbN>
I'm aware it can't be changed
<BtbN>
thus I'd probably prefer just not making it appear
<softworkz>
If you find it so important - okay, then let's do it your way (.SECONDARY)
<BtbN>
like I said, it's a very minor thing
<BtbN>
so I'm fine either way, just that I'd prefer it to not appear like that
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<softworkz>
not sure whether the output can be filtered in some way? but is that a good idea anyway?
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<BtbN>
Well, "not making it appear" would probably in the form of keeping the intermediates
<softworkz>
Then let's do this. It's not worth to make this block progress.
<softworkz>
It wasn't clear to me that many would find that output so disturbing..
<BtbN>
Multiple people seem to feel strongly about that rm line being there
<softworkz>
I don't want to fight against multiple :-)
<BtbN>
It just doesn't seem like something that's worth any stress to me
<softworkz>
Yup alright
<softworkz>
Do you think the other changes in the patchset are alright? Then I'll update it to use .SECONDARY
<BtbN>
I've spent the last week at home with a cold, somehow. So I didn't do any patch reading
<BtbN>
not generating the .d files for those seems obviously ok to me
<softworkz>
Oh, I'm sorry to hear that
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<BtbN>
second patch also looks sensible on first read
<softworkz>
It's putting the commands into variables - simply
<softworkz>
okay fine, I'll update it to use SECONDARY, then you can take a closer look - if possible
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<haasn>
Lynne: how is it possible for device_init() to be called without device_create()/device_derive() being called first?
<Lynne>
you have 2 paths - one to create a device all in one go, and one to create a device without init, which you then init
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<haasn>
Lynne: I have a bug report from a user that says 27590d86534b0c94f12b9a206410f475fb008e72 (disable ReBAR ...) regressed vulkan hardware decoding; moving the vkGetPhysicalDeviceMemoryProperties back to device_init() solves it
<haasn>
okay, so we probably need to just duplicate those calls?
<haasn>
it should be harmless to call it twice
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<Lynne>
what regression?
<Lynne>
what happens?
<TheVibeCoder>
hacks happens.
<haasn>
Lynne: "[ffmpeg] Vulkan: No memory type found for flags 0x1", not sure about the command line used but apparently it happens when using vulkan hwdec
<TheVibeCoder>
open vote: revert all multiple softworkz hacks commits
<kasper93>
softworkz: could we just generate those files in build dir and not remove them? It is unusual for any buildsystem to drop files in source dir and expect them to be cleaned
<haasn>
Lynne: I can't reproduce the bug on my end fwiw
<softworkz>
kasper93: Yup, that's what happens when adding to the .SECONDARY special target
<haasn>
but I can only test AV1 decoding
<haasn>
because openSuSE hates royalty free codecs like H.264
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<kasper93>
wbs, haasn: what I did to fix that is to have zero initialzied union in global scope, which is required to be fully zeroed and use that as initializer for union variables where "active member" is not yet known
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<Lynne>
haasn: nvidia?
<haasn>
Lynne: yep
<haasn>
seems like it's via mpv
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<haasn>
maybe that initializes the device differently
<haasn>
wbs: C++ has reinterpret_cast<>() though, doesn't that accomplish the same thing?
<Lynne>
haasn: I'll fix it
<wbs>
haasn: that's usually used for different things (for converting a pointer from one type to another iirc), but e.g. memcpy() of the float bits into an int should be a valid way of doing the same as with unions
<kasper93>
yeah, c++ has "better" ways to handle types that's why unions are defined differently
<kasper93>
proper ways to cast unrelated types is std::bit_cast
<kasper93>
which is just memcpy, which is optimized by compiler most of the time
<wbs>
also probably because unions containing actual C++ classes with nontrivial constructors/destructors make things even more messy
<wbs>
which is probably why they require only one union member to be active at a time
<kasper93>
true
<microchip_>
false
<microchip_>
:p
<TheVibeCoder>
just use C++ features, or don't
<kasper93>
Rust doesn't have this problem
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<TheVibeCoder>
Baron Samedit
<thardin>
sent an email to google about the elst stuff
<TheVibeCoder>
Elst is a town in the municipality of Overbetuwe in the Dutch province of Gelderland. It is situated in the Betuwe, between the cities of Arnhem and ...
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<thardin>
also spotify
<TheVibeCoder>
about what? you type very cryptic stuff.
<TheVibeCoder>
IAMF is cursed
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<fflogger>
[editedticket] gin: Ticket #11640 ([avfilter] Specific combination of timeclamp, fps, and count on showcqt causing crash) updated https://trac.ffmpeg.org/ticket/11640#comment:2
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<TheVibeCoder>
FFmpeg is indeed the real guild.
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<jamrial>
michaelni: can you send me the sample from the getbits iamf assert failure?
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<cone-827>
ffmpeg Timothee master:c94a419e32ea: avfilter/codecview: Enable QP visualization for H.264
<cone-827>
ffmpeg Michael Niedermayer master:c909ef31be96: avcodec/osq: Fix signed integer overflow in update_stats()
<cone-827>
ffmpeg Michael Niedermayer master:f8e30d9eebd2: avcodec/osq: Request a coding mode 2 sample
<cone-827>
ffmpeg Pavel Roslyy master:983a3b17e45a: libavcodec/hcadec: fix header parsing after 'comp' section
<cone-827>
ffmpeg Michael Niedermayer master:b587afcb6519: avcodec/osq: Add note about update_stats() count
<cone-827>
ffmpeg Michael Niedermayer master:a5f861d33549: avcodec/osq: Switch back to av_ceil_log2()
<cone-827>
ffmpeg Michael Niedermayer master:6e5f47f6d371: tools/target_dec_fuzzer: Adjust RV60 threshold
<cone-827>
ffmpeg Michael Niedermayer master:a8c21a7158fa: Add FUNDING.json
<cone-827>
ffmpeg Michael Niedermayer master:f06474faf87b: tools/target_dec_fuzzer: adjust threshold for VP8
<cone-827>
ffmpeg Michael Niedermayer master:5b1301004bda: avformat/iff: Check nb_channels == 0 in CHNL
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<thardin>
TIL <video><track> can be used to specify subtitle tracks, but only subtitle tracks
<thardin>
one would think it might be possible to also specify audio tracks but no
<thardin>
I also have a real-world example but I don't know if I can share that
<thardin>
the example I'm looking at has multiple audio streams, which works in mpv but not in chromium
<thardin>
that is, the html points to a hls playlist + 4 subtitle tracks
<ePirat>
thardin, IIRC usually the HLS playlist should reference those. no?
<michaelni>
jamrial, sent,, i thought i already did send this one a while ago
<thardin>
ePirat: the subs? it can, yes
<thardin>
but in true web fashion, there's more than one way to do it. but awkwardly, no way to synchronize separate audio/video tracks if they're not muxed together
<thardin>
unless you use js of course
<thardin>
currently multiple commercial products proliferate that plug this gap
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<jamrial>
michaelni: thanks, patch sent
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<TheVibeCoder>
haasn: the true peak is still broken
<TheVibeCoder>
its most of time smaller then sample peak
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<cone-827>
ffmpeg Lynne master:85c0364b703f: hwcontext_vulkan: move ReBAR check into a new function and use it later
<kasper93>
do you think it would be good to add a tests for such case?
<another|>
michaelni: Where did this wallet address come from? Did you generate it? Do you hold the keys?
<another|>
Because I think I heard about these types of patches before and IIRC it was some kind of scam?
<TheVibeCoder>
crypto ==== scam
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<TheVibeCoder>
i receive daily mails about cryptos, by today, i would be rich like musk if I received all those cryptos
<TheVibeCoder>
how dare they donate me scam cryptos just becase I'm open source developer
<TheVibeCoder>
but there we be always easy targets to steal from
<TheVibeCoder>
also wasnt ethereum been hacked?
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<michaelni>
another|, its in the commit message "The specified wallet is a safe wallet backed by a ledger hw wallet", there are no keys in a safe wallet. the ledger hardware has CC EAL6+ certification.
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<michaelni>
also 0$ in it and plan is to send anything we receive to SPI as soon as SPI has support for receiving USD stable coins
<TheVibeCoder>
lol
<michaelni>
TheVibeCoder, btw, are ypour new decoders and libavcodec improvments (under LGPL) ?
<michaelni>
I meant your new decoders and libavcodec improvments under LGPL and can we merge them ?
<TheVibeCoder>
no
<michaelni>
what license are they under ?
<TheVibeCoder>
AGPL4+
<another|>
michaelni: Who controls the hardware wallet?
<michaelni>
another|, I do
<michaelni>
TheVibeCoder, where is the text of that license ?
<another|>
hmm.. okay. at least doesn't seem like obvious scam, then. Not a huge fan but okay
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<TheVibeCoder>
michaelni: THIS IS PROPERTY OF LIBREMPEG DEVELOPER, PAUL B. MAHOL, ANY EXTERNAL USAGE IS FORBIDDEN!
<michaelni>
TheVibeCoder, does that also apply to all the changes you did?
<michaelni>
I mean not just the new decoders
<TheVibeCoder>
everything
<TheVibeCoder>
lavfi-preview also
<haasn>
TheVibeCoder: fix on ML
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<kierank>
19:32:10 <•michaelni> also 0$ in it and plan is to send anything we receive to SPI as soon as SPI has support for receiving USD stable coins
<kierank>
why not just send SPI actual money
<kierank>
instead of making ffmpeg a speculator in some dumb shitcoin
* kierank
believes in currencies backed by jets and taxes
<BtbN>
Cause it's some bitcoin bros thing that send that "money"
<nevcairiel>
can just leave those bitcoin bros in their bubble
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<thardin>
ffnft when?
<thardin>
I need to transcode my apes
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<softworkz>
Glucose-1-phosphate adenylyltransferase large subunit 4, chloroplastic/amyloplastic
<softworkz>
^^^ AGPL4+
<TheVibeCoder>
thardin: apes? you mean Monkey's Audio codec ?
<microchip_>
whoo whoo whoo :P
<TheVibeCoder>
D ape Monkey's Audio
<TheVibeCoder>
ffmpeg -formats|grep ape
<microchip_>
lots of monkeys in here ;)
* microchip_
looks at TheVibeCoder :P
<TheVibeCoder>
someone please ban microchip_
<microchip_>
lol
<psykose>
TheVibeCoder is an iguana
<microchip_>
it was a joke ;)
<kasper93>
is patchwork dead?
<kasper93>
there are now new patches
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<TheVibeCoder>
speed=1.98e+03x VS speed=2.27e+03x for ebur128 filter, even with bunch of SIMD, ffmpeg slower than librempeg
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<TheVibeCoder>
SIMD does not mean speed
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<cone-422>
ffmpeg Andreas Rheinhardt master:88fee7046a8e: avcodec/g728dec: Remove AVCodec.sample_fmts
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<TheVibeCoder>
dead internet theory
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<ramiro>
haasn: in which case is plane splitting substantially slower than not plane splitting?
<ramiro>
like I think I said before, plane splitting might not always be beneficial for x86 since you can read and write to many memory locations simultaneously without too much penalty, but on aarch64 socs there is a clear benefit for splitting planes. it could be an option that the backend has to explicly ask for.
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<thardin>
my old T420 is giving up just in time for there being seemingly decent risc-v lappies on the market
<thardin>
the roma has a bunch of "AI" nonsense
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<thardin>
the first one might have some historical value down the line
<kepstin>
I've got a board with the same spacemit chip as is used in the roma, and it's... not really decent at all, tbh
<kepstin>
very slow cpu, gonna be a while before you can run anything but a hacked up vendor kernel on it, closed source (for the time being) powervr graphics.
<kepstin>
on the plus side, it does support the v extension (proper 1.0 version) - although it requires vector loads/stores to be aligned.
<kepstin>
(specifically, vector load/store must be aligned to ELEN)
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