02:49 <o0x1eef> nakilon: Can you provide an example?

13:15 <nakilon> henk: if user is supposed to git clone your repo and run it, he should be ok with any versions of the gems there, because they rely on you and that you've already checked them

13:17 <nakilon> the "to leave it up to people" sounds like the case of the repo that is a library, i.e. people don't launch it from the repo root, and they have their own Gemfile and use your thing as a dependency; in that case your Gemfile and Gemfile.lock will be just ignored, even if they are included in the gem that you've published

13:18 <nakilon> I had a case though, when the repo had Gemfile.lock and it somehow was colliding with my Gemfile, not sure how that worked, maybe because I was sourcing from a :path; weird stuff

13:20 <nakilon> i.e. answering your last question, basically, Gemfile and Gemfile.lock are both ignored when they use your project as a dependency running another app from another directory

13:20 <o0x1eef> https://yehudakatz.com/2010/12/16/clarifying-the-roles-of-the-gemspec-and-gemfile/

13:21 <o0x1eef> More or less what has been said already :D But this is from the original author of Bundler itself.

14:31 <henk> nakilon, o0x1eef: thanks! I’ll have to meditate on that input for a while, I think. and read more about what bundler and gems really are …

15:23 <o0x1eef> Sounds good ;)

15:24 <havenwood> henk: I'd suggest adding the actual dependencies to your gemspec, that's standard. Put a `gemspec` directive in your `Gemfile` file.

15:25 <havenwood> It's optional whether you `git rm Gemfile.lock` and add it to your .gitignore. The community is split.

15:26 <havenwood> Bundler's current guidance is commit the Gemfile.lock but RubyGem's was to not commit. I typically do not commit it unless there's some dependency issues I'm aware of, but whether you commit it is less important than other things.

15:26 <o0x1eef> My approach is to follow yehuda's advice more or less exactly.

15:26 <havenwood> o0x1eef: Yeah, I prefer it to Yahuda's logic to current Bundler too.

15:28 <havenwood> I think the important thing here is to `add_dependency` for your real deps in your `.gemspec` file and `gemspec` to your `Gemfile` then `bundle`.

15:29 <havenwood> henk: https://guides.rubygems.org/specification-reference/#add_dependency

15:29 <havenwood> https://bundler.io/guides/rubygems.html

15:32 <havenwood> o0x1eef: I mean, I agree. :)

15:32 <o0x1eef> :D

15:32 <havenwood> Rereading what I wrote I need coffee. Haha.

15:33 <o0x1eef> I think he makes a well reasoned argument for not commiting Gemfile.lock for gems.

15:35 <henk> thanks!

15:39 <henk> this is about an app, and what’s more, an app that does (at least currently) not really have devel, testing, production environments but is distributed to other people to run. and also may be packaged by (linux) distributors. also, at least until I feel more "at home" in the codebase, will not be distributed (by me) as a Gem or using bundle. ATM people are just supposed to clone the repo and run it

15:39 <henk> from there, likely with dependencies satisfied by their system’s ruby packages, where the Gemfile is not respected anyway … currently I have no idea what’s best for this situation but I hope that changes when I have read more about bundler and gems. I’ll likely be back with more questions then, though (:

15:40 <havenwood> henk: Add a `gemspec` line to your Gemfile, and you can act like it's a gem with `add_dependency` lines.

15:41 <havenwood> henk: Like this line: https://github.com/havenwood/data-option/blob/main/Gemfile#L5

15:41 <havenwood> Then you can gradually make it a gem as you see fit. Install it locally at first, install it from GitHub, push it to RubyGems proper.

15:44 <henk> see, there is why I need to read: I have no idea what "act like it’s a gem" even means :D I’m absolutely clueless about ruby tooling, even as a user, let alone as a maintainer …

15:46 <o0x1eef> There's also add_dependency | add_runtime_dependency (they're the same) but also add_development_dependency. So for a gem, you rarely need anything except 'gemspec' in your Gemfile because the gemspec can manage all of it. There might be odd exceptions to this. As a general rule though this works.

15:46 <o0x1eef> I'm at odds with havenwood on this one though :)

15:49 <havenwood> o0x1eef: Some extended discussion here, and I can think of a more recent thread but can't find it at the moment. https://github.com/rubygems/rubygems/issues/1104

15:49 <havenwood> I'd consider `add_development_dependency` entirely optional, but I'm not going to PR to switch or anything since it's in the "tradition versus removing duplication" category I think.

15:50 <havenwood> I think we can agree `add_dependency` should be used! A Gemfile is technically optional for a gem. I use it for development dependencies, since Bundler was added to RubyGems and I consider it more "modern" practice.

15:51 <havenwood> o0x1eef: I used to do exactly like you prefer, I think. I've migrated to Gemfile for dev deps in recent years, but I don't think it much matters.

15:51 <o0x1eef> Exactly. It doesn't really matter :)

15:51 <havenwood> +1

15:51 <havenwood> TIMTOWTDI!

15:52 <havenwood> There are bad ways, but a couple totally fine options here.

15:53 <o0x1eef> In Ruby. Always.

16:16 <nakilon> > well reasoned argument for not commiting Gemfile.lock

16:16 <nakilon> meanwhile we people are locking the ruby version, smh

16:22 <nakilon> if I have an array ABCDE, how do I get these pairs nicely? AB AC AD AE BA BC BD CA CB DA DB EA ?

16:24 <nakilon> i.e. this triangle without the main diagonal: https://i.imgur.com/0ZhRxl0.png

16:33 <sam113101> what's that triangle?

16:34 <sam113101> do the Xs mean you don't want AA, BB, etc.?

16:38 <testone> nakilon: p=[] ; [1,2,3,4,5].combination(2) {|i| p.push i} ; p

16:38 <testone> is it what you need?

16:38 <sam113101> looks like he wants a permutation at first glance

16:39 <sam113101> I'm so glad ruby has those lol

16:39 <testone> [inside myself I voted for him writing wrongly the pairs :D]

16:46 <nakilon> testone: you've excluded the correct diagonal but took wrong triangle

16:47 <nakilon> answer should have 12 itmes

17:14 <testone> with:

17:14 <testone> a=%w(a b c d e); a_bis=a.dup

17:15 <testone> this is the only thing I could think of:

17:15 <testone> p=[]; a.each {|i| p+=(a_bis-[i]).map {|j| [i,j]}; a_bis.pop}

17:15 <nakilon> LLM is so useless https://i.imgur.com/jgvWHFj.png

17:16 <testone> if there is some specific matrix/vector/daru method to do it, I donno

17:21 <testone> nakilon: a suggestion, if you really like to use imgur instead of any other file hosting service not forcing you to see web page, you can substitute host like this --> https://rimgo.vern.cc/jgvWHFj.png

17:21 <testone> and you can see just image like it should be

17:25 <nakilon> I always wondered why imgur opens to everyone with full page; it's been years for me the direct links are opening directly; even if I disable the browser extensions; I have no idea why it is like that

17:26 <testone> or you have not disabled the extension that actually do the job

17:27 <testone> or you have a 'cheated' /etc/hosts

17:27 <testone> or your browser is obscure or you changed user agent to something imgur serves image directly

17:27 <nakilon> maybe you use bad browser, like firefox

17:27 <testone> wget is as bad as firefox

17:28 <testone> you need to change wget user agent too, if you want the image only

17:28 <o0x1eef> I use firefox :D

17:28 <o0x1eef> Because fuck monopolies

17:29 <testone> I would like to use some years ago firefox, but dreams are dreams

17:29 <nakilon> see the full page of imgur with ads if you insist

17:30 <testone> I don't see either, I use the alternative interfaces, like that I pasted

17:30 <testone> or I use something like wget -U c if I need to download

17:36 <havenwood> nakilon: There's no single stdlib method to produce that output given that input. I'd use Matrix, personally.

17:37 <havenwood> If you don't mind a `require 'matrix'` I find #diagonal an elegant way to get the diagonal.

17:37 <havenwood> Just as an example, consider: Matrix.rows(('a'..).first(5*5).each_slice(5).to_a).each(:diagonal).to_a

17:45 <nakilon> => ["a", "g", "m", "s", "y"] # what is that?

17:45 <havenwood> nakilon: Look at the output of: ('a'..).first(5*5).each_slice(5).to_a

17:45 <havenwood> It's the diagonal.

17:46 <nakilon> ok but I need the rest of the elements ..D

17:47 <havenwood> nakilon: I don't think I follow. You want the diagonal elements and the not-diagonal elements as two separate lists? Is the input actually a String?

17:48 <havenwood> I don't get the talk of a triangle. Show another example input and expected output? Sounds like something you'll need to write a little method for, in any case.

17:48 <havenwood> Or never mind if you have a good solution. :)

17:53 <nakilon> havenwood: imagine that the rows and cols are numbered as ABCDE starting from the left top corner

17:54 <nakilon> you need to obtain the 12 elements of the left-upper triangle

18:47 <nakilon> a.flat_map.with_index{ |e, i| [e].product a[i+1..a.size-i-1] }.then{ |_| _ + _.map(&:reverse) }

18:59 <havenwood> nakilon: Gotcha, that makes sense. 👍

19:50 <nakilon> o0x1eef: not sure when I'll come up with the example about the "method namespaces"; I'm trying to implement genetic algorithm and the methods within the namespace would be the possible values of the gene, like the eye color, just for the traits that describe the behaviour of the specie in a more complex way than a Numeric; i.e. there will be a pool of possible traits (methods) that the

19:51 <nakilon> gene is pointing at via... the name of the method or rather the method object since it's a possible thing in the language

19:52 <nakilon> I've just started with a simple example to see that the framework works https://gist.github.com/Nakilon/915e7881a09e4407d4785ca608e0129b -- the traits here are just numbers yet

20:59 <testone> is there a reason you use the symmetry to generate the second half of the 'triangle'?

21:09 <testone> nakilon: is it faster then

21:09 <testone> a.flat_map.with_index {|e, i| [e].product a[...a.size-i]-[e]}

21:09 <testone> or similar direct generation?

21:51 <nakilon> idk, it fulfils my needs