<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Why would they need to do this? find "${name}"-"${version}" -type f -name '*.8' -exec cp -t "${PKG}"/usr/share/man/man8 '{}' + ;
<SiFuh>
Installing manpages for things they didn't compile.
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<zorz1>
emmett iso is great, nice idea and clean this autoinstall. but, mounts the home partition at the same partition with root and does not have the musl ports
<zorz1>
so when i went to install xorg-libx11 it started downloading glibc.
<zorz1>
are this normal?
<SiFuh>
zorz1: What was the name of emmett1's iso?
<zorz1>
sourceforge the topic
<zorz1>
fuckin helll i did ventoy the usb stick i tried to install ukky,,, installs but no ports it says
<zorz1>
i did ventoy systemrrescue ukky emmet and crux.
<zorz1>
remount ventoy and place again ukkys iso
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<zorz1>
also does not install git.... so ports -u dont work for musl overlays out of the box
<zorz1>
now i am taking farkuhar musl.pub to see what happens.
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<zorz1>
SiFuh look how leah builds libx11 for void
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<zorz1>
yeap.... we go glibc :P
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<zorz1>
farkuhar dont bother to sign the ports.... nothing works:P
<farkuhar>
zorz1: what did you mean "we go glibc"?
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<SiFuh>
dash requires perl. Heh, no chance
<ukky>
SiFuh: Hmmm. I have to fix my memory capacity. For some reason, I thought crux-3.7-stage0.iso is glibc-based.
<SiFuh>
ukky: I don't know either. I leave MUSL to everyone else. I am more focused on inspect all these core ports for glibc
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: it looks like zorz is running into issues with the installation he got from emmett1's ISO. But rather than trying to solve these problems constructively, he says "we go glibc" and then signs off.
<farkuhar>
Okay, now I can say I've met someone who uses ed.
<SiFuh>
Hehe, I have used it before. I just find it too old for me ;-)
<SiFuh>
How big is nano? Many people use that right?
<SiFuh>
511K on OpenBSD
<ukky>
I use nano only when there is no vi or vim in a system.
<farkuhar>
For download: 1.7M. After installation ... I'll have to get back to you on that, nano is not currently installed here.
<SiFuh>
Heh, never thought to try that. I usually end up using sed
<SiFuh>
I tried nano like once or twice 2003 and have never been interested in it since
<farkuhar>
`pkgsize nano` on CRUX-MUSL 3.8 reports 664K, now that I went ahead and installed it.
<ukky>
Does it mean that I am not a power user, as I only use sed in shell scripts?
<farkuhar>
Getting rid of bash will also require modifying the format of /etc/rc.conf, or insisting that users install SiFuh's binary rc. Currently the binary rc shuts down the services in the same order that they were started, whereas the bash rc shuts them down in reverse order. It's debatable whether iterating backwards through the SERVICES array is behaviour worth preserving, though.
<SiFuh>
Hmm interesting.
<SiFuh>
Oh I also rewrote rc.fix into something sane.
<farkuhar>
It's also possible that a user might populate the SERVICES array with a filename containing whitespace. The bash rc is smart enough to preserve the array elements and invoke them double-quoted, but the C version will stumble on something like SERVICES=(lo net crond "music player daemon").
<emmett1>
farkuhar: not just rc.conf. pkgmk, Pkgfiles and whole prt-utils? which is using #!/bin/bash?
<remiliascarlet>
farkuhar | SiFuh: Since my question went ignored: is there a source code repository for OpenCRUX, or are we simply working from CRUX-MUSL?
<farkuhar>
remiliascarlet: I thought zorz was setting up a server for collaboration, and that's why he invited us to send him our ssh public keys.
<remiliascarlet>
Suggestion: should we make POSIX Shell or KSH or ZSH the default shell rather than Bash?
<farkuhar>
Or maybe I misunderstood what zorz had in mind, when he offered to create shell accounts for us on his machine in Greece.
<remiliascarlet>
farkuhar: I never understood why he set up a server. When I asked, SiFuh just told me that it's to access zorz's porn pictures (and yes, I know that's just a joke).
<farkuhar>
Honestly I think zorz just wanted to show off how quickly he can get a Void server up and running, while the rest of us are content to share pastebin patches and links to our individually-curated git repos.
<remiliascarlet>
I asked because I would like to contribute to the project, but it seems like if only you and SiFuh have the full project at hand right now.
<farkuhar>
remiliascarlet: It wouldn't be a violation of Per's vision to make POSIX sh or KSH the default login shell, but the OG CRUX founders did insist on bash for distro-specific tools like pkgmk (as emmett1 pointed out).
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<farkuhar>
Yeah, that's why the original bash version constructed R_SERVICES instead of just reusing the existing SERVICES array.
<SiFuh>
I just reversed the order
<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: You have any machines running musl?
<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: "seems like if only you and SiFuh have the full project at hand right now." Actually it is scattered all over the place. Mostly it is just port building for MUSL and GLIBC. No actual ISO exists except the old MUSL version ukky supplied and the official CRUX 3.8 ISO.
<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: Would be nice is to take out bloated ports and replace them with slimmer ports. For example man-db replaced with mandoc... and so on. Removing MESON from core ports and returning to simple ./configure and make. Stuff like that. On the side farkuhar is tweaking the rc shell version and I am tweaking the rc binary C90 version.
<SiFuh>
Once everyone is satisified with their Pkgfiles. We can all upload them to respective locations like glibc musl and multilib then everyone can inspect and tweak or dump them
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Hehe I set MAX_SERVICES to 64 and serpente is complaining that I shouldn't do that. Says it should be a user setting and not something you need to change and recompile.
<SiFuh>
MAX_SERVICES=65536
<SiFuh>
:-)
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<zorz1>
I think i got it. Most probably is python that tries to install glibc with mesa and xorg. And most probably is O3 of olutmies
<SiFuh>
zorz1: I still have yet to need meson, ninja, python, perl for my core build. I kicked out dash because it wanted perl and installed openksh and installed openvi, dumped man-db and replaced that with mandoc.
<SiFuh>
everything except gcc and glibc have recompiled in fake_root2. gcc is currently compiling. Should compile fine.
<zorz1>
Emmett iso this is the problem python3. I recompile now.
<zorz1>
I am with mobile-weblibera
<zorz1>
Sifuh bravo
<SiFuh>
also no autotools
<zorz1>
Coolllll
<SiFuh>
Bit annoyed about booting out dash though. But needing perl was the kicker
<zorz1>
How people can do irc from mobile phone....is self whipin
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Are you able to find out when dash was introduced into CRUX, who did it and why?
<SiFuh>
zorz1: Can't, I ended up enabling voice to text
<zorz1>
Dash is posix
<SiFuh>
Not completely
<zorz1>
But why it needs perl
<zorz1>
And openbsd is not completely
<SiFuh>
Maybe dash uses it for compilation
<SiFuh>
Are we going to split glibc and create a linux-headers port?
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<zorz1>
Farkuhar, thanks for python3 musl.
<zorz1>
Emmett's iso has problem with python
<zorz1>
In an hour i will be reloaded in musl
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<farkuhar>
SiFuh: dash has been in core since CRUX 3.2; that's as far as the git history goes. The earliest commit recorded by git is from frinnst, back in 2015. But dash must have been in the ports tree even earlier, before they switched from subversion to git.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: I see thanks
<farkuhar>
Is zorz really trying to do IRC on a mobile phone? No wonder his posts are so disjointed: "But why it needs perl ... And openbsd is not completely"
<farkuhar>
I should save myself the headache of trying to understand him. As for the role of Perl in OpenBSD, it's instructive to remember that /usr/sbin/pkg_{add,check,delete,info} are all perl scripts.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: He wants to know why dash needs perl. I only briefly looked into it and it is probably for building. A make depend.
<SiFuh>
OpenBSD? It looks like he is referring to ksh not being entirely POSIX if you search for true POSIX shells ksh is one of them.
<SiFuh>
And I really couldn't be bothered because glibc sucks.
<SiFuh>
glibc wants python. ONLY FOR BUILDING. So it wants junk on my system that I can remove after this bloatware is installed
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<zorz>
'lo :-))))))
<zorz>
the person that wrote python-mako should be hunged from the testicles!@#$%
<SiFuh>
hanged
<zorz>
teacher :)
<SiFuh>
zorz: What iso is that?
<zorz>
is emmett1 iso the one from the topic... he did excellent job... few minor issues the main issue was python3. i was going to depinst xorg-server and was downloading glibc
<SiFuh>
Did it have a blue installer screen?
<zorz>
later i realized but the issue was python3 flit setuptools mako markupsafe
<zorz>
no black
<SiFuh>
Heh.
<zorz>
auto installation man... amazing the easiest of all
<zorz>
modular kernel 2 min and boot
<zorz>
limline something
<SiFuh>
glibc needs python to build but only for build. How fscking stupid
<zorz>
yes its fuck
<zorz>
now i am building nodejs... rust and firexox
<zorz>
i rebuild everything in musl, gcc llvm clang
<SiFuh>
glibc?
<zorz>
no musl
<zorz>
i am musl
<SiFuh>
You didn't answer my question
<zorz>
glibc what?
<SiFuh>
You said you rebuild everything in musl.. Are you rebuiling glibc in musl to or is that not everything?
<zorz>
ahahahahaha
<zorz>
ahahahahaha
<zorz>
SiFuh: fuck off :P
<SiFuh>
I can't you said python for glibc build is "yes its fuck"
<zorz>
fuck is that libptyty of urxvt does not compile and if is to patch everynow and then... go back to glibc
<zorz>
SiFuh: when your iso will be ready ?
<SiFuh>
zorz: fuck off :P
<zorz>
heh
<farkuhar>
zorz: Do you really need the standalone libptytty? Other repos that have rxvt-unicode seem to find a way to avoid that dependency; only darfo's repo has it. https://crux.ninja/portdb/search/?q=libpty
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<zorz>
farkuhar: i dont know....i will check after i have a working firefox
<farkuhar>
So I finally built enough packages on the 2017 ThinkPad running a fresh installation of CRUX 3.8, and it looks like the GTK-related segfaults (Inkscape and GIMP) are not happening with glibc. I suspect it's a bug introduced by one of the ports in the MUSL overlay.
<ukky>
farkuhar: default stack size in musl is 128 KiB, according to web search. Default stack size in glibc is 10 times of musl, from 2 to 10 MiB. Just that could be the reason for bloated SW to segfault.
<SiFuh>
ukky: What is so great about libxcrypt? For fun I just messed around with sysvinit code and compiled it against libressl instead libxcrypt.
<SiFuh>
ukky: I seem to recall it doesn't work in musl. Did you ever get it working?
<ukky>
SiFuh: but nothing specifically great.
<SiFuh>
ukky: Heh, I mean if we already have openssl or libressl installed and it can be used?
<ukky>
SiFuh: I don't remember what was going on last February... Let me check
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: I have notice that I always get this when building ports xargs: file: No such file or directory
<SiFuh>
Every port.
<SiFuh>
Ports still build fine. Just curious it happens exactly before =======> Build result:+
<ukky>
SiFuh: musl has /usr/lib/libcrypt.a, and I did not build libxcrypt in musl ISO, it is marked as glibc-dependent.
<SiFuh>
Yeah, I never built it either ukky
<ukky>
SiFuh: glibc also provides /usr/lib/libcrypt.a, so I don't know why we install libxcrypt too. I might be wrong, but I think Gentoo removes libcrypt.a from glibc when user prefers libxcrypt.
<SiFuh>
I used that for glibc and not libxcrypt. I did python with libressl and sysvinit with libressl
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: Speaking of errors that are not fatal to the port, something I noticed on the recent CRUX 3.8 glibc, when building ports as an unprivileged user, is 'ld.so: object libfakeroot.so from LD_PRELOAD cannot be preloaded (cannot open shared object file): ignored.'
<SiFuh>
Hmm, I am in a chroot
<farkuhar>
Running CRUX-MUSL for so long, I've managed to avoid all the errors related to ld.so and ld.so.conf; it was a bit surprising to see every `prt-get depinst` operation throw the LD_PRELOAD error once I started building on CRUX-glibc again.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Hahahaha I have noticed too
<ppetrov^>
farkuhar, i don't think it's good practice to maintain ports, but run a spin off of CRUX, where you cannot test them properly.
<ppetrov^>
just saying
<ukky>
The best option would be to use Crux for core ports only and install everything else from NetBSD pkgsrc, it is portable to Linux also.
<SiFuh>
ukky: Heh
<ukky>
No need for extensive testing on all of those pkgsrc-provided packages.
<ppetrov^>
so you guys will ditch Per's tools in favour of pkgsrc?
<ppetrov^>
NetCRUX?
<ppetrov^>
that's amusing
<ukky>
Crux tools will be used to handle core directories. pkgsrc can be limited strictly to /usr/pkg, with its own database.
<ppetrov^>
so, there will be a /usr/pkg?
<ukky>
But that's just a possible option.
<ppetrov^>
this påractice to have different tools to deal with the core system and everything else i don't like
<ppetrov^>
i've had this with slackware and slackbuilds.org
<farkuhar>
ppetrov^: I understand your objection. I managed to rationalize the practice by saying to myself, "MUSL is stricter than glibc, so if something compiles on CRUX-MUSL, it should work fine on the original CRUX."
<ppetrov^>
farkuhar, you notified the core devs youare not building your stuff on stock CRUX?
<farkuhar>
ppetrov^: No, I didn't notify them.
<SiFuh>
What about argon2 and libsodium for a replacement to libxcrypt?
<farkuhar>
What ppetrov^ calls "stock CRUX" is actually more bloated than the platform I've been running. No linux-pam here, no sudo, no dumb_runtime_dir, ...
<SiFuh>
no perl, no meson, no ninja in core.... hahaha
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: Our goal is to bring CRUX back as very stock before CRUX when bloated
<farkuhar>
I wouldn't mind keeping perl in core. Even OpenBSD's package management tools have perl in their shebang.
<SiFuh>
No point being in core if core isn't using it
<farkuhar>
Heh, my drop-in replacement for prt-get has perl in its shebang too.
<SiFuh>
....
<SiFuh>
Stop adding junk
<ukky>
Cmake is also bloatware.
<SiFuh>
ukky: Don't have that either ;-)
<ukky>
SiFuh: kudos
<farkuhar>
If OpenBSD thinks perl is a decent enough language for their /usr/sbin/pkg_{add,check,delete,info} scripts, then I wouldn't consider my 1007-line perl rewrite of prt-get as "junk" or "bloatware". From that rewrite I learned a few things that eventually made their way back into the C++ version.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: You oversimplified that
<farkuhar>
ppetrov^: different tools to deal with the core system versus everything else? Are you referring to language-specific toolchains, like pip for python, cargo for rust, npm for node.js, ...?
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<ppetrov^>
farkuhar, no... in slackware they have pkgtools and on top of thet users install stuff like sbopkg to deal with slackbuilds.org
<ppetrov^>
cmake is 'bloat'?
<ppetrov^>
so, we should avoid programs that require it?
<ukky>
ppetrov^: Yes. It is a translator from CMakeLists.txt into series of Makefiles.
<ppetrov^>
so how do i build a program that normally requires cmake?
<ukky>
ppetrov^: If you don't know how to create Makefiles, then you can do nothing about it. Otherwise, create Makefile and get rid of CMake.
<ppetrov^>
i don't know how to create Makefiles
<ukky>
ppetrov^: then you have a dependency on cmake
<ppetrov^>
yep
<ukky>
Cmake was invented so that Windows users could compile programs for Linux, on a Windows systems.
<ppetrov^>
TIL
<zorz>
ggggggggg
<ppetrov^>
i like cmake
<ppetrov^>
it's colourful
<ppetrov^>
:P
<zorz>
i am waiting for SiFuh to say gay
<zorz>
heh
<SiFuh>
gay
<zorz>
still not tight jeans :P
<ppetrov^>
i used to wear tight, light-blue jeans when i was young
<ppetrov^>
was cool
<SiFuh>
gay
<zorz>
i still wear them.... i am not miserable like SiFuh :P
<SiFuh>
zorz: You are not miserable because you are not married, and you are not married because all the women think you are gay because you wear tight jeans.
<ppetrov^>
there, SiFuh figured it out
<ppetrov^>
brilliant deduction, man
<ppetrov^>
zorz, listen and learn
<zorz>
hahahaha
<ppetrov^>
MCUBA
<ppetrov^>
Make CRUX UnBloated Again
<zorz>
ppetrov^: you know the dillema of a married man?
<ppetrov^>
no
<ppetrov^>
call the distro "CUBA": Crux UnBloated Again. First release 3.8, code name Fidel
<zorz>
SHALL I go out to see and watch what i cannot fuck OR shall I stay home to Fuck what I cannos see!!!
<zorz>
cannot
<zorz>
hahahahahaha
<SiFuh>
Crux UnBeerman Again
<ppetrov^>
see <- not the right verb, more like what i can't stand to look at
<ppetrov^>
we have the same joke in BG
<SiFuh>
Shall I go out and look at the women I cannot have sex with or have sex with the woman I cannot look at.