serpente has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<SiFuh>
farkuhar_: Doesn't matter about the table. I was asking you what that sentence means
<SiFuh>
Because the way I read that sentence means that the DATE of the cheque must match with the payment cost of that particular day.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar_: And a few people read it, like the bank, my mother and so on, and they said that is exactly what it means.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar_: So I did that and the US Embassy said they can't process the cheque because it is the old price, and they were only doing my application on the 23rd even though, I handed them the application on the 19th.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar_: https://i.snipboard.io/C4Bw06.jpg Here is the screenshot. So basically I must magically predict the day that they plan to process it in the future rather than relying on the actual words that are written on that website.
zorz has joined #opencrux
<zorz>
SiFuh_: Σιγουρα - Siguramente :P
<zorz>
Greeks stole nothing.... but We educated the Neaderdals :P
<SiFuh>
Fucking hell dude
<SiFuh>
A lot of Greek knowledge was poached from Egypt and Atlantis
<SiFuh>
zorz: I think the Great Wall of China was built by the Romans.
<SiFuh>
And I think the Silk Trail was a Roman name and NOT a Chinese name.
<SiFuh>
The Chinese were not trading _for_ silk the Roman's were. So naturally the name given to the trail would be given to what they are trading for. Not what they are trading.
<SiFuh>
For example, the East Indies was the Tea trade, and also the spice trade.
<SiFuh>
So the West was travelling by ships to collect tea and spices.
<zorz>
yes this is fuct.
<zorz>
fuct as fuck :P
<SiFuh>
You mean fact
<zorz>
yesssssssssss
<zorz>
:P
<SiFuh>
I knew
<SiFuh>
Also ever notice the Great Wall is Western design?
<SiFuh>
Each towere is a Roman mile apart. The width of most of the wall is a Roman road width?
<SiFuh>
tower*
<zorz>
not really... not in that depth... only headlines.
<SiFuh>
If it was to protect the Chinese from the Mongolians why are the original doors on the Mongolian side?
<zorz>
you know civilization.... counts 2025.... plus th B.C. .... time is short.... only headlines.
<zorz>
and you critisize.
<SiFuh>
No I don't know
<zorz>
jhhahhahaha
<SiFuh>
Because I think. Therefore I am.
<zorz>
oooooooo I like it!
<SiFuh>
I have seen many of their walls and looked at it and thought, this isn't Asian design. WHAT IS GOING ON AROUND HERE?
<zorz>
chinese build it.... slaves were china made.
<SiFuh>
I don't think so
<SiFuh>
Maybe some but not all. I think it was a highway to traverse the land safely
<SiFuh>
China has pretty rugged uninhabted land
<SiFuh>
It would make sense to build a trade route, elevated
<SiFuh>
zorz: You drive 5 minutes out of any city in China and there is not a single soul around.
<SiFuh>
Except Shanxi. Let me check first
<SiFuh>
Yes, Shanxi is massive. It has many cities and towns and suburbs
<SiFuh>
No it is Xi'An sorry
<SiFuh>
I think Xi'An is the worlds largest city. Not Tokyo
<zorz>
I think I move to Jakarta... back to the roots.... is the tap water good there?
<SiFuh>
No
<zorz>
people leaving in cities.... with no tap water.
<SiFuh>
Have, but you can't drink it
<SiFuh>
Same here.
<zorz>
yeap from the minnings..... fuck Jakarta.... Back to Mt Olympus.... my birth place.
<zorz>
bottled water... the plastic.... is worst shit!
<SiFuh>
I don't
<SiFuh>
I drink tap water, but I filter it
<SiFuh>
When I lived in China they said you can boil once. Twice you can't you must throw it. No idea why
<zorz>
yes.... the ΦΑΥΛΟΣ ΚΥΚΛΟΣ filter the unfiltered.....
<SiFuh>
I have 4 filters
<zorz>
where are all those agencies
<zorz>
GREEN
<SiFuh>
1 pre-filter outside and three inside
<zorz>
isnt it better to get pure from the beginning ?
<SiFuh>
You mean rain water direct from the sky without coming into contact with bird shit on leaves?
<SiFuh>
Of course
<zorz>
problem is not the bird shit...... problem is the pestisides.... i stop eatting lettuce that i dont know where is farmed.... i love strawberries.... and strawberries grow on the ground they fertilize them with unwashable things.
<zorz>
so..........
<zorz>
PURE... like OpenCRUX :P
<SiFuh>
When water travels through metal pipes through stressful cities, the frequency changes. So of course it becomes unhealthy. But that is fringe science and no one would beleive that unless they actually studied it back during the Vietnam War.
<zorz>
this is school of Aristotle
<SiFuh>
Strawberries are the worst. They are super soft skinned and the chemicals absorb into them very quickly
<zorz>
ΑΜΙΑΝΤΟΣ..... οοοοοοοοοοοοοοο fuck = cancer
<SiFuh>
Cancer can't survive in the human body unless it is fed.
<zorz>
yeap my man!
<SiFuh>
Sugar is the food cancer thrives in. In fact, we knew that because it is how they find tumors. Then give you radioactive sugar and watch it move around your body until it arrives at the tumor. Then they cut it out, or put you on Chemotheraphy then the first thing they give you is something sweet to eat with sugar in it. Heh idiots
<zorz>
yeap the 3 whites... sugar, salt and ???
<SiFuh>
Salt is great
<zorz>
Salt is great if you live in Malaysia... not in a normal country like Greece....you need salt over there to keep not dehydrated.
<SiFuh>
I remember when they told us Margarine is better than Butter. I burst out laughing. But all the idiots believed it! I was shocked.
<SiFuh>
I take Fish Sauce mostly.
<SiFuh>
I take it so much there is a bottle near my bed. Hahahaha
<SiFuh>
This one. Very salty. Made from Anchovies.
<SiFuh>
Ignore the squid, it is not in it. Just a label
<zorz>
they seriously said that.... Margarine better than Butter?
<SiFuh>
It says Plaa meuk. Num Plaa Tae. Which means Squid, Fish Sauce.
<SiFuh>
Yes the did. In the 90's
<zorz>
my best food... is stealling green fresh wallnuts from my village.
<zorz>
you know that they are white?
<zorz>
not brown.
<zorz>
but... the green of outside.... sticks worst glu on the hands.
<SiFuh>
zorz: You know the first wild boar I ever killed in the jungle, I jumped out of a tree and landed on it and strangled it to death then ate it?
<SiFuh>
Apart from fishing, no animal in the jungle or forest have I killed with a trap or a weapon. Always bare handed.
<SiFuh>
And some clown is on TV saying to me Margarine is better than butter.
<zorz>
SiFuh: you know that my father used to have 5 horses and 300 wildboars farmed.
<SiFuh>
Heh horses.
<zorz>
I love horses!
<SiFuh>
I was in the forest in Australia and was sleeping on the ground in a Ghillie's suit. I woke up around 4am to see a huge horses penis above me. That fucking horse followed me for 2 days. I lost it when I free climbed a cliff face to continue on my journey in the 90's
<zorz>
free sex ? :P
<SiFuh>
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
<SiFuh>
No, I think it was more lonely that whatever goes on in your hea
<SiFuh>
d
<zorz>
my first wild boar male adventure... ended me on top of an Oak tree
<zorz>
hahhaa
<zorz>
what to do ? .... patience... a virtue that i miss.
<SiFuh>
zorz: I remember once coming upon a wild boar. Everyone thought it was a cow. I went up a tree too. It was as big as a PRIUS!
<SiFuh>
No way in hell would I try to strangle it. That thing would turn me into breakfast
<zorz>
you know//// their power is on the legs... and bones.....and these fucking teeth are so sharp!
<SiFuh>
Never touched their teeth and their legs are useless because it is on me. They can't touch anything
<SiFuh>
zorz: Jump on them, roll over so you are on your back. Wrap your legs around their waist, and sleep hold their neck. Struggle as much as they want, and suffer the hair stabbing through your clothes into your chest.
<SiFuh>
zorz: I don't know the size. But I judge them on the fly. Can I or can I not. Usually they are about as big as a pittbull.
<SiFuh>
Once you get larger, the neck muscles are too strong
<SiFuh>
Heh, zorz Next chapter of the book I was reading just now talks about how water has a memory effect and negativety makes water absorb and vibrate negatively and can become toxic to the human body. What a coicindence!
<zorz>
wait wait....strange thing the greek W is ς ςαιτ
<SiFuh>
It's like eating a curry that tastes like paper.
<zorz>
no i like the part............in our life is so much anger!
<zorz>
aaaaaaaaaaa Ce la vie
<SiFuh>
zorz: My wife thought it meant 'I love you'
SiFuh has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
SiFuh has joined #opencrux
SiFuh_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
SiFuh_ has joined #opencrux
<ukky>
wrt RNG, 'man 4 random' has good explanation how and why RNG seed has to be initialized from saved random sequence. BTW, poolsize is expressed in bits, not bytes.
<ukky>
rc v2.34.2 had a bug, saving only 1 random byte at system shutdown. The amount should be a multiple of /proc/sys/kernel/random/poolsize divided by 8. rc v 2.25 does not save RNG seed at all.
<ukky>
This rc v 2.35 comment about removal of /dev/random init at boot is questionable: Kernels newer than 5.6 can generate enough entropy on their own
<SiFuh>
ukky: I think it should be up to the user but as default it should be enabled
<ukky>
SiFuh: Security of the OS is not up to the user. Unless user does not use /dev/random or SSL/TLS/SSH/HTTPS etc.
<SiFuh>
ukky: So user is forced? You know dev/(u)random exists because of RNG?
<SiFuh>
Anyway, it doesn't matter. I say enable it even if I think it is overly bullshit. User's like me can decide to disable it when using newer hardware.
<SiFuh>
And to be honest, even if it becomes overly bullshit, I don't see anything wrong with it existing even if unneeded
<SiFuh>
Maybe a few second slower boot and shutdown time.
<ukky>
SiFuh: You are free to disable all sorts of protection on your private systems, but distro has to be secure.
<SiFuh>
ukky: I don't think it matters on new hardware. Since CRUX was suppose to be running bleeding edge software on bleeding edge hardware.
<ukky>
SiFuh: That's your opinion. My opinion is opposite: even on fastest and modern HW random seed has to be initialized on every boot.
<SiFuh>
ukky: You have yet to convince me ;-)
<SiFuh>
As I said, in other words. I am happy to do it your way.
<ukky>
SiFuh: I do not have to.
<SiFuh>
Actually if we get opencrux rolling, which I have no idea what anyone is doing at the moment. You will have to
<ukky>
All my systems save random seed upon shutdown and re-initialize seed upon start.
<SiFuh>
ukky: And I think it is an error your part. I really need to dig deeper but from I see you are copying an insecure key
<ukky>
No, I do not have to. It's a free world, you do things your way, I do it my way.
<SiFuh>
OpenCRUX is ours, not mine. We need to discuss everything. Not let Olutmies take over.
<SiFuh>
Heh, 'have to' I should not use this wording. I should say 'you should'
<ukky>
When writing to /dev/random at boot, random seed is not used 'as-is', byte-by-byte. It will pass through RNG hashing function, as one additional sourse of entropy.
<SiFuh>
I know what it is and what it does, I just think it is insecure on modern hardware
<ukky>
Avoiding this step will make your hardware and OS less secure.
<SiFuh>
We'll see in July when I bury my head into it
<SiFuh>
Still think you are wrong :-P
<ukky>
That's okay, as I have to prove nothing
<SiFuh>
Just gives me more work to do.
<ukky>
That's not me. Somebody (not me) removed saving/restoring /dev/random from /etc/rc, you have to talk to them.
<SiFuh>
I didn't remove it! Who removed it?
<SiFuh>
I just put a note above explaining it
<ukky>
Check rc v2.35
<SiFuh>
Actually I was thinking about rngd or haveged the other day rather than just dd'ing it.
<ukky>
I do not use core/rc, so this removal does not inpact me
<SiFuh>
CRUX?
<ukky>
rc 2.35 in Crux-3.8
<SiFuh>
WTF is this?
<SiFuh>
# Random seed manipulations not needed for kernels newer than 5.6
<ukky>
zorz: unless you have HW RNG or /etc/sv/save-and-restore-rng/run, your RNG sequence is not really random, as there is no much deviation between reboots.
<zorz>
Despite its strengths, the security of 256-bit encryption relies heavily on proper implementation
<zorz>
OpenCRUX
<SiFuh>
zorz: Seems it is dead. Been waiting for progress and no one seems to have done anything.
<SiFuh>
zorz: My survival kit is full of Tampons and Condoms. Tampons make the best fire starter and condoms hold a lot of water. You ca get a little over 2 litres if you push it.
<zorz>
hahahaa
<zorz>
listen........ crux sucks
<SiFuh>
zorz: I have a feeling in August I am the one that has to make the first ISO.
<zorz>
they have a bash script
<zorz>
not even posix
<zorz>
Per was okay.... we move frome there,..... but i need to finish the udev thing
<zorz>
SiFuh: Auhgost where is top for holidays?
<ukky>
zorz: 256-bit encryption and 256-bit RNG pool size are not related.
<farkuhar_>
Hmm, according to ivandi's patch, swapon should have been placed *after* /bin/mount -a -O no_netdev (during startup), and swapoff should have been placed *before* /bin/umount -a -d -r -t nosysfs,noproc,notmpfs,nodevtmpfs (during shutdown/reboot).
<SiFuh>
farkuhar_: It doesn't really matter if the swapoff command is still in memory, but yes if it is not.
<SiFuh>
I'd turn it off before umounting root
<farkuhar_>
SiFuh: That makes sense. As I understand it, /etc/fstab governs both swapon -a and mount -a (and their counterparts during shutdown), but each line of fstab only affects one of those pairs (either swapon/swapoff or mount/umount).
<farkuhar_>
So /bin/mount -a will ignore the lines in /etc/fstab that declare a swap partition, while /sbin/swapon -a will ignore the lines that do not declare a swap partition. Hence the need for both commands during startup.
<farkuhar_>
As for the order of the commands, I wouldn't expect it to matter much during startup (assuming the rootfs is mounted by then, and both /bin and /sbin are populated). But during shutdown, you're right to be concerned that an early unmount of the rootfs will render /sbin/swapoff unavailable.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar_: Did you see the image I posted today?
<SiFuh>
farkuhar_: swap should be one of the first and one of the last. But usually it doesn't matter at startup
<farkuhar_>
SiFuh: your image must have gotten lost when zorz pasted his entire rc script into the chat.
<ukky>
My scripts disable swap _after_ all tmpfs mountpoints are unmounted (on shutdown). System may get into out-of-memory state if tmpfs uses a lot of RAM.
<ukky>
farkuhar_: Shutdown script should not unmount root FS. It just have to remount it readonly as one of the last shutdown/reboot steps.
<SiFuh>
I sent a cheque for 585 on the 19th. The cheque was dated the 19th. The application was made on the 19th. On the 23rd the told me they can't cash it because it is wrong. Needs to be 559. So now I must predict the future? My mother said "Twits. Stupid that they expect the payment not to be valid on the day of purchase"
<SiFuh>
ukky: Yes, remount RO
<ukky>
When root is RO, we still can execute /sbin/swapoff, as it has to be a part of base set.
<SiFuh>
Yes
<ukky>
SiFuh: just pay as Banker's cheque in USD, to avoid a chance of using that part of 'make sure...' statement against you.
<SiFuh>
ukky: What I wanted, but the banks can't do it here. Hahaha
<farkuhar_>
SiFuh: so we agree that /sbin/swapoff should still be available (even on a RO filesystem). Then why did your first reply include the condition "if the swapoff command is still in memory"?
<SiFuh>
farkuhar_: YES
<SiFuh>
It should be the last thing turned off (umounted) before system shutdown.
<ukky>
swapoff just should not be located on separate (non-root) partition, which will be unmounted on shutdown/reboot
<SiFuh>
If it is still in memory it is technically the same as being on RO / so nothing special as nothing changed
<SiFuh>
ukky: Yes because that would be stupid if it was
<SiFuh>
Another reason core should be / and not /usr
<ukky>
Even if swapoff is not in memory, it will be loaded from RO partition upon use. Make sure all dynamic libraries are available.
<SiFuh>
ukky: Another reason dynamic should not exist in core
<ukky>
SiFuh: I agree. Core should be only in the root partition.
<SiFuh>
ukky: It is in the works for the the glibc system. But I am still waiting for everyone to decide what is core and what is not.
<SiFuh>
I want to strip it down. It's become to big. And I want to move compilation tools into a seperate repo. Even if used by core ports to build.
<ukky>
SiFuh: *BSD should be a good example what should be in the core set.
<SiFuh>
ukky: I disagree since OpenBSD has a very bloated core but agree with some of the stuff in there.
<SiFuh>
As for Net and Free, I don't knowe
<ukky>
SiFuh: I do support your idea to move compilers/toolchain into separate (non-core) set.
<SiFuh>
ukky: I only like the idea because of people who build servers want to secure them and remove everything. Nothing easier than prt-get remove *everything* in this repository.
<SiFuh>
Even if it is a source based repo
<SiFuh>
distro*
<SiFuh>
Also if I don't use autotools but 5 ports use it. I can remove autotools easily after my 5 ports are built.
<ukky>
Many might just use whatever is on ISO, *.pkg.gz, and never update server until next ISO release.
<SiFuh>
But the average zorz might not know so it makes life a little easier
<SiFuh>
ukky: Slackware style. Heh
<SiFuh>
I still want a list of core ports from everyone. So we can start stripping that system down.
<ukky>
My 3.7 systems have these uninstalled from core: eudev, linux-pam, sysvinit.
<ukky>
dumb_runtime_dir is not installed
<ukky>
Python in core is also an elephant in the room.
<ukky>
Exim is also too big and optional for core.
<SiFuh>
dumb_runtime_dir should be under fonts or xorg
<farkuhar_>
Moving exim to the opt repo was on the TODO38 list, but it never got implemented. Even OpenBSD provides a mailer daemon in the base collection.
<SiFuh>
What actually is Exim?
<farkuhar_>
Exim is a mail delivery agent.
<SiFuh>
Exim is a mail transfer agent used on Unix-like operating systems.
<ukky>
Exim is mail transfer agent. For local and remote mail.
<SiFuh>
Okay
<ukky>
One of my Crux systems uses Exim, the other uses Postfix. I like Postfix better.
<SiFuh>
ukky: No sendmail?
<farkuhar_>
ukky: If we kept compilation tools like meson and ninja in core, then python would have to stay in core too. With a separate repo for compilation tools, python could be moved there.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar_: Move it all to compilation. It isn't needed to run a system. Only build it.
<ukky>
SiFuh: Both Exim and Postfix provide sendmail.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar_: It doesn't mean users can't install it. It just keeps it divide.
<farkuhar_>
I'm surprised that ivandi didn't notice the broken RNG seeding in rc 2.35, but provided a patch for the swap handling instead. Apparently "all bugs are shallow" really does require many pairs of eyes.
<ukky>
farkuhar_: He might not be concerned about RNG randomness.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar_: So Ivandi took our RC and tweaked it?
<SiFuh>
farkuhar_: It wasn't broken, it was commented out.