<farkuhar>
The README says something about a hard dependency on elogind, which was part of the reason for tim eventually dropping the lightdm port. On a distro only partially infested by systemd technologies, it's a challenge to keep maintaining these desktop environment ports.
<ppetrov^>
hsp, I had a lxdm port, can dig it up if you like, maybe it builds fine
<farkuhar>
According to ukky, the partial infestation of CRUX by systemd is limited to: eudev, libudev, xorg-xf86-input-evdev, and xorg-xf86-input-libinput. Supposedly Gentoo makes it harder to get rid of all traces of systemd.
<hsp>
My problem is that with slim and active autologin, no program can be started on the Mate desktop. I have no idea why.
<farkuhar>
hsp: Does the problem disappear if you manually log in to slim (disabling the autologin)?
<hsp>
That's right, everything is fine without autologin.
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<jaeger>
there's also greetd as an option, you could port a graphical greeter for it if you don't like tuigreet
<hsp>
I think I'm going to say goodbye to crux. There's nothing for it. And every other person says you should ‘port foobar for that’.
<jaeger>
Your choice, of course
<jaeger>
We have a small user base and that means a lot of software hasn't been ported because that usually happens when people use said software
<jaeger>
porting is easy but you seem to be pretty resistant to trying
<jaeger>
I also see sddm and console-tdm in the portdb, for what that's worth
<jaeger>
I'm going to port regreet now that I know it exists, curious about it
<farkuhar>
If the prospect of maintaining a private collection of ports is too daunting, then the remaining choices are to cobble together an acceptable DE with the ports that are available, or to abandon CRUX entirely. It looks like hsp is too fixated on lightdm (or at least autologin) to consider the first option.
<cruxbridge>
<tim> farkuhar: I dropped lightdm it because I stopped using it. I am not sure where you are taking the assumption that it was due to a partial elogind dependency that i had worked around. I'd really appreciate if the hostile side comments could come to an end.
<braewoods>
hsp, if you're just a casual user, this isn't really a distribution for you. it's really for people who are not those, or who seek to go beyond.
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<cruxbridge>
<tim> hsp: like jaeger says, greetd can start both, x11 and wayland. It's also very modular and is imho the nicer option. But I also agree with what braewoods is saying.
<braewoods>
those who just want a plug and play experience should go elsewhere. that's not likely to be your experience with a DIY distribution.
<jaeger>
r0ni: already done but thanks :)
<braewoods>
often i only got into diy because off the shelf solutions were not compatible with what I wanted.
<cruxbridge>
<tim> r0ni: regreet looks cool
<r0ni>
yeah it is if it's configured right, it can look bad too lol
<braewoods>
tim: you sure you won't regret it? :D
<cruxbridge>
<tim> I can make that possible :D
<cruxbridge>
<tim> probably, heh
<r0ni>
i think regreet is the best of the greetd offerings out there, seems mostly ignored tho
<braewoods>
sad to turn away a new user but it's for the best if their expectations are elsewhere.
<farkuhar>
braewoods: maybe hsp was turned away by my "hostile side comments".
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<ppetrov^>
farkuhar, hsp just wanted to have ready ports for what he need
<ppetrov^>
*needs
<ppetrov^>
well, wrong expectations, i guess
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<farkuhar>
ppetrov^: It requires a perverse reading of my side comments to spin them as encouraging, rather than hostile. George Bernard Shaw comes to mind: "The reasonable man adapts himself to the world. The unreasonable man adapts the world to himself. Therefore all progress is due to the unreasonable man."
<ppetrov^>
i don't think your comments were hostile, but then again, i do not follow things here too closely
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<ppetrov^>
and if hsp used crux "just to try" and was disappointed, then well...
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<ppetrov^>
i think a little more patience on his side, and willingness to make his own ports would've be beneficial for him and the community
<cruxbridge>
<tim> a) the systemd infestation, it's getting old. There is no systemd, no elogind. At this point, if thats not hostile, at least its uncalled for. b) the comment in the readme was done 2 years before dropping it, i can assure you that dropping it had nothing to do with either systemd or elogind being a problem. Making an assumptions happens very often lately, and if thats not trying to steer up some mood, again, this is at least very unnecessary.
<cruxbridge>
<tim> and I agree about the guy leaving, he expected apt or dfn, but instead faced ports not existing and was unwilling to do them. It's tough luck.
<r0ni>
i've done elogind, but not yet systemd... don't tempt me further... lol
<ppetrov^>
well, I pointed him to medit, since he wanted gedit and showed him medit is not dead
<ppetrov^>
also, others tried to help with various issues
<cruxbridge>
<tim> I mean thats just the point I am not caring about, you can do systemd if you want, I don't care.
<ppetrov^>
now the graphical login turned out to be the last straw for him...
<ppetrov^>
r0ni, and do we really need elogind for xfce?
<r0ni>
tim: no, I know, I'm just playing, there's too much seriousness out here in linux.. drama over init things, silly
<cruxbridge>
<tim> r0ni: exactly. but bringing these points up every other week is just lame.
<r0ni>
ppetrov^ no, I've not removed it cuz it's been there for long time in the repo, but it's not needed at all
<cruxbridge>
<pitillo (@pitillo:crux.nu)> But the best part IMHO is that he has shown something pretty good about this community… people is ready to help
<ppetrov^>
r0ni, then i remove it for good and good riddance
<ppetrov^>
:P
<ppetrov^>
well, yes they are and quite competent, too (me excluded... :P)
<ppetrov^>
when I joined I received a lot of help
<r0ni>
as long as you've got consolekit in use, no need for elogind, just a the 'accountsservice" won't build without elogind/systemd
<ppetrov^>
people even explained how to build a static binary, which i really needed for my work
<ppetrov^>
what is 'accountsservice" for?
<r0ni>
TBH I may remove them both eventually
<ppetrov^>
heh
<ppetrov^>
make a ports collection called "graveyard" and move them there
<r0ni>
it's like a helper app for user accounts and login info stuff
<ppetrov^>
mhm
<cruxbridge>
<tim> ppetrov: i _think_ its used to deliver the available users to e.g. lightdm
<cruxbridge>
<tim> r0ni was faster
<cruxbridge>
<tim> anyway, thats why I was perfectly fine with not depending on it. Sure a nice thing for multi user systems, which I don't happen to maintain
<r0ni>
it'll store like a user login icon and such... it's mostly worthless without yet more apps to use it with
<ppetrov^>
aha, right
<cruxbridge>
<tim> ppetrov^: the idea of a graveyard repository (or attic) was always rejected.
<ppetrov^>
tim, how about the list of dropped ports?
<cruxbridge>
<tim> what about it?
<ppetrov^>
isn't this the same idea?
<cruxbridge>
<tim> not really
<ppetrov^>
stuff tha is no longer maintained
<r0ni>
i always keep local ones called like "_removed" or similar... if I don't use something that i made but may be useful eventually, i throw em somewhere so I don't lose the data at least
<cruxbridge>
<tim> i think the idea was to move them out of e.g. contrib to attic so the work is easily accessible for anybody that might need them
<cruxbridge>
<tim> so the Pkgfile is preserved. a mere list of names is not the same
<cruxbridge>
<tim> its just more work and prone to be out of sync
<ppetrov^>
at first they were just a list, iirc, then I was digging through the commits trying to find a Pkgfile or two and asked farkuhar would it be possible to have the links. he was kind enough to do it
<cruxbridge>
<tim> moving ports to an attic repo takes like 6-7 commands but you are completely done with it, while this takes you to login to pmwiki, update the page (using pmwikis horrendous syntax) - no thanks :)
<cruxbridge>
<tim> with the limited hands on CRUX there is just so much you can do.
<ppetrov^>
yep
<ppetrov^>
btw, i've never seen a donations link on crux.nu... may I ask, how you guys fund the project?
<cruxbridge>
<tim> there is no funding
<cruxbridge>
<tim> crux-arm was able to score some funding, in the past and present, but pitillo can answer those questions ;)