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<zablozki>
Hello
<zablozki>
I prefer this format to discord any day.
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<zablozki>
Hey I am starting to use MARKUP library, it seems to be very cool!!
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<zablozki>
no one around?
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<aeth>
people are around
<aeth>
this channel just tries very hard to move a lot of the activity to #lispcafe or #clschool though, which may give an impression that it's not that active
<aeth>
(and neither channel is logged)
<aeth>
For instance, talking about Discord probably belongs in #lispcafe
<aeth>
That is, amusingly, the one thing that Discord probably does better than IRC. You join more than one channel at once, so if one channel has stricter on-topicness rules, you don't think that nobody is there at all because you also see the various side channels.
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<proudPater>
Hello everyone, new here. And new programmer, just getting my feet wet. Do you guys recommend the gentle introduction book to start with lisp?
<proudPater>
Found about lisp thanks to one of my uni professors, and it blew my mind. I fear i entered a rabbit hole I absolutely DON'T understand.
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<beach>
proudPater: If you already know how to program, I would instead recommend Practical Common Lisp.
<beach>
proudPater: Oh, new programmer. OK, then "gentle" might be better.
<beach>
proudPater: Also, I recommend #clschool where people hang out to answer newbie questions.
<beach>
proudPater: Don't worry about the rabbit hole thing. We will explain everything to you if we need to :)
<beach>
proudPater: Oh, and welcome! :)
<proudPater>
Thanks!! This is all new for me. Last time I used IRC was 15 years ago... as a teen. Also, everything from programming to maths, also new for me. Fascinating world. And lisp really grabbed me.
<proudPater>
Will check out clschool. Thanks again!
<beach>
proudPater: I fully understand! :)
<beach>
Am I the only one who can't reach irclog.tymoon.eu?
<jackdaniel>
gitea frontpage
<jackdaniel>
Shinmera:
<beach>
jackdaniel: Congratulations!
<jackdaniel>
thanks
<Shinmera>
I'm messing about with the server right now. Give me a bit.
<jackdaniel>
benchmark shows a decent speedup
<beach>
Shinmera: OK. Take your time. Just checking.
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<ingeniot>
jackdaniel: Nice Work! :-)
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<Shinmera>
beach: should be back
<Shinmera>
I had to set up some new stuff to block AI scraper bots from trashing my servers.
<Shinmera>
Love the future
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<beach>
Shinmera: It's back. Thank you.
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<_death>
now it requires js..
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<jackdaniel>
I've read that someone put zip bombs in links (served with gzip compression) that were never accessed by people
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<jackdaniel>
ingeniot: thanks
<Shinmera>
_death: that ship has long since sailed.
<_death>
Shinmera: I suppose.. it just means I shouldn't bother visiting it anymore
<Shinmera>
why?
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<_death>
because I won't be able to access it, unless I make an effort
<Shinmera>
I'm impressed you still get around at all
<_death>
yep, still stranded on the island of old fashion ;)
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<mwnaylor>
I've been AFK. I do have stumpwm loaded. I need to go and reread the Sly info.
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<thuna`>
Is there a reason why the spec is so insistent on manually maintaining package-shadowing-symbols as opposed to calculating it on the fly by checking package-use-list?
<beach>
How would that work?
<thuna`>
Well, check if a symbol is present, then check if it is exported by some used package. If both are true, then the symbol is shadowing.
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<beach>
That definition is different from the current one it seems.
<beach>
How would you make it present if it is exported by some used package?
<thuna`>
I was thinking that in FIND-SYMBOL you would first check the present symbols table, and if it's not there check used packages.
<beach>
But how would be symbol become present in the first place?
<thuna`>
Through shadow and shadowing-import, unless that's not what you're asking
<beach>
So SHADOW would just make the symbol present and nothing else?
<thuna`>
Correct, I think
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<beach>
I would have to give that one some more thought.
<beach>
Maybe some faster thinkers here can give faster feedback.
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<thuna`>
Ok, looking at the glossary entry for shadowing symbols list, I see that use-package is supposed to be exempted from signalling an error if the conflict is with shadowing symbols, which makes more sense, but the entry for use-package itself doesn't say that, so that should probably be amended.
<beach>
thuna`: It would be somewhat error prone, though. USE-ing a new package would not signal an error if there is a present symbol that clashes with an exported one. So it would fall into the same category as making a variable automatically special when SETQ is used.
<beach>
thuna`: Yes, when I was working on Parcl, I recall that there was such an omission. Let me see if I can find it...
<beach>
Exactly!
<thuna`>
I don't think that's quite right. USE-PACKAGE signals an error if the symbol is already accessible, which (in the situation where shadowing symbols are simply those which are present) would include shadowing symbols
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<beach>
Is that what it says? Let me check.
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<beach>
I see what you mean.
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<nil>
_death: salutations to those of us who sail with JS off
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<jackdaniel>
will you enable text/ecl scripts handled by wasm? :)
<nil>
if it's a text then i can just read the text, and evaluate if i want
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<jackdaniel>
I mean <script type='text/ecl>...</script>
<nil>
Even though the lanugage is better, it's the running code at all that I don't like. But why add 2 more layers of abstraction just to show text?
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<jackdaniel>
there is web as a collection of documents, and not executing code is fine there (unless you need to stop nonsense crawling of recent of course), and there is a poor mans application platform not much unlike jvm
<jackdaniel>
I gather that you are not interested in the latter
<jackdaniel>
but the fact stands that it is zeroconf most widely deployed cross platform runtime
<nil>
I'll run a web app if I know what it does and who makes it. If every script tag would have a README and opt in, then fine.
<jackdaniel>
I see
<nil>
you'd be suprised that most big websites will serve me most content fine with JS off
<nil>
because i'm so stubborn I also have a thing to extract text and media from js code
<nil>
of course i've already run ecl and clisp in wasm for fun, but it seems pointless
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<jackdaniel>
lispers know the value of everything and the cost of nothing
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<nil>
I guess if I just accept browser is Lisp machine and JS is Lisp, then I can be happy and rich. But my soul will be betrayed.