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<wbooze>
if it's not toplevel you are doing closures
<beach>
mivanchev: The latter.
<mivanchev>
thanks :)
<wbooze>
(defun (bla) (defun blabla ()...
<wbooze>
defun is a lambda but with an implicit let in it
<beach>
wbooze: What?
<beach>
wbooze: In what respect is "defun a lambda but with an implicit let in it"?
<beach>
And there is no such thing as "a lambda". There are lambda expressions and there are functions created from the evaluation of lambda expressions (if you consider LAMBDA to be a special operator).
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<beach>
Only a few days ago, someone here was confused because that someone also thought there was such a thing as "a lambda", and the confusion was cleared up by what I just said.
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<jackdaniel>
I think that in CS lambda functions are widely known as anonymous functions that are not bound to an identifier. is it different in common lisp?
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<beach>
Yes. There are no "lambda functions" in Common Lisp. But there are anonymous functions.
<jackdaniel>
looking here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anonymous_function ; anonymous functions are known as lambda functions and lambda expressions, the latter is even in the glossary. I don't know what was the misunderstanding of that someone, but "lambda function" doesn't seem to be a confusing term
<beach>
That is totally wrong for Common Lisp. A lambda expression is not a function at all
<beach>
jackdaniel: Also, the original poster did not say "lambda function" but "a lambda".
<jackdaniel>
lambda expression denotes a function
<jackdaniel>
and I don't think that it would be controversial to say "use COMMON-LISP package"
<jackdaniel>
even if symbols are /not/ packages
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<jackdaniel>
that said what wbooze said earlier is nonsense to me too :)
<wbooze>
right, i confused it
<erru>
i think what wbooze wanted to say is that (defun foo ()) is more or less equivalent to (defvar foo (lambda ())), so it defines symbol-funcion for the given symbol
<wbooze>
(defun bla () (defun blabla () ... does not actually nest.. both bla and blabla are global other than the true lexical variants with flet/labels
<wbooze>
there's only an implicit progn
<jackdaniel>
I think that we are stacking now wrong on top of wrong
<beach>
erru: But that's wrong too, because DEFUN does not define the name in the variable namespace.
<jackdaniel>
defvar defines a variable and it lives in a different namespace
<jackdaniel>
and symbol-function is deprecated in favor of fdefinition too, because function names may be lists too, most notably (setf foo)
<erru>
jackdaniel: about wrong on top of wrong, yes i think so too ^^
<wbooze>
and progn makes it all toplevel
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<jackdaniel>
I'm not sure how to put it nicely, but you are saying incorrect things and it is confusing
<jackdaniel>
maybe nto for seasoned lisp programmers, but for new ones certainly
<cdegroot>
It's confusing to me as well... in as how you can misinterpret `progn` that much. Without expressly trolling, that is.
<beach>
cdegroot: I can see what was perhaps meant, but incorrectly expressed. A PROGN as a top-level form makes the body forms also top level. There are a few operators that work that way.
<beach>
But obviously, sticking a PROGN form just anywhere makes neither the PROGN form not its containing forms top level.
<cdegroot>
We have an excellent saying for that in Dutch: "Hij heeft de klok wel horen luiden maar weet niet waar de klepel hangt." - a literal translation "He did hear the sound of the bell, but doesn't know where the clapper hangs." does not do it justice.
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<sixfourtwelve>
Sorry for the disconnect/reconnect spam, been away from my computer the last 2 days and my internet has been freaking out
<erru>
sixfourtwelve: you're not the only one. my irc history is always full with these :D
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<sixfourtwelve>
I SSH into my mac mini and connect to the tmux session, so I can keep chat history. There's probably better ways, but I rarely use IRC enough to go through the effort lol
<erru>
if i need something not from today, i open the irc logs. i usually turn all computers off during the night
<sixfourtwelve>
True, I'm in like 3 other channels that don't have that sadly (as far as I know). Oh well :), I must go though, have a great day all :)
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