klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
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<kof673> https://github.com/ec-/q3asm https://github.com/ec-/q3lcc https://github.com/jnz/q3vm you have: 1M of stack (no general purpose registers), and a printf() sys call and some basic libc
<bslsk05> ​ec-/q3asm - Fast assembler for Quake3 Arena QVM (6 forks/14 stargazers)
<bslsk05> ​ec-/q3lcc - LCC-based compiler for Quake III Arena QVM (8 forks/15 stargazers)
<bslsk05> ​jnz/q3vm - Q3VM - Single file (vm.c) bytecode virtual machine/interpreter for C-language input (64 forks/896 stargazers/GPL-2.0)
<kof673> it is seemingly really a puts() syscall but it includes a printf() wrapper that calls it
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<_Heat> linux operating
<zid> system?
<_Heat> yes.
<nikolar> _Heat: yes
<mjg> linux kernal system
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<mjg> i tried watching windows NT videos
<mjg> fucking guy claimed the success of the OS was due to tech
<mjg> as opposed to MS being pieces of shit
<mjg> so i turned it off
<_Heat> There's a hint of truth to that
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<nikolar> what tech
<nikolar> what was so much better about it lol
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<_Heat> it didn't crash all the time
<_Heat> super compatible way back to win 3.1
<_Heat> (and ms-dos)
<nikolar> it was already winning when it was crashing all the time
<nikolar> (win 95 and 98)
<_Heat> sure
<_Heat> but still in a limited way
<zid> w95 was just a skin over the very successful win 3.1 and dos afterall
<nikolar> i mean it was a bodged dos lol
<nikolar> yeah exactly zid
<zid> all the programs everybody was already running didn't just disappear
<zid> there are *still* point of sale systems running DOS programs for their UI
<nikolar> indeed
<_Heat> meanwhile linux guarantees compatible up to... yesterday?
<zid> Inertia is always the main reason
<nikolar> _Heat: hey, linux keeps source compatibility
<nikolar> somtimes
<_Heat> yeah, except when it doesn't
<zid> but none of the makefiles, tools, etc do
<nikolar> exactly
<zid> there's nothing holistically driving linux to be stable, sadly
<zid> like on windows
<_Heat> there is, you just need to pay for it :p
<nikolar> to be fair, i did get some ancient software to build on modern linux
<_Heat> BUY
<_Heat> SLE
<nikolar> no
<_Heat> LICENSE
<_Heat> yeah i mean
<_Heat> it kind of works sometimes
<zid> posix is somewhat stable, ish, enough that gcc with a modified makefile might build it still
<_Heat> but e.g gcc bumping the C/C++ standard ruins it all
<_Heat> glibc tries to keep the ABI at least
<nikolar> as we've seen with gcc 15
<nikolar> where they, for some retarded reason, bumped the standard to c23
<zid> ehh I *get* it, but it's sucky, mainly the suck is the C23 standard tbh
<zid> gcc probably *should* push the default standard forward, the problem is that the default standard is crappier than the previous one :p
<nikolar> yeah
<nikolar> c standards shouldn't be doing what c23 did
<zid> or at least, not un-crappy enough to be worth all the breakage
<nikolar> indeed
<zid> if in 1992 they made breaking changes and so-on, and we got an actually improved language every now and then? Also fine
<zid> but we got a breaking standard that added nothing useful, and fixed basically nothing
<nikolar> zid: but hey, it was for c++ compat
<zid> phew, thank god
<zid> I'm constantly accidentally compilgin my C as C++
<nikolar> i know right
<nikolar> happens all the time
<zid> I should start posting defect reports about the "C++ compatibilty"
<_Heat> what was?
<zid> int class; doesn't compile
<_Heat> bool is not for C++ compatibility
<zid> _Heat: wording in the nullptr rfc
<_Heat> bool is for modern language welcome to 1998
<zid> was "for C++ compatibility"
<zid> and it makes sense right
<zid> because if it was for fixing C, they'd have just fixed NULL
<zid> instead of adding some C++
<_Heat> that's even worse
<nikolar> what's even worse
<nikolar> nullptr didn't solve literally anything that fixing NULL wouldn't have
<_Heat> now gcc bumps the standard and you have breakage all over
<nikolar> how
<zid> the breakage wasn't from nullptr
<zid> it was mainly from bool
<_Heat> because i guarantee you there are people out there relying on NULL being either 0 or (void *) 0
<nikolar> what broke a lot of configure scripts was not allowing `main() {}`
<nikolar> :P
<nikolar> i think i had to patch a couple of things because of that
<_Heat> and bool affects the 1% of projects that typedef bool (kernel, firmware, libc)
<zid> *everyone* relies on it being (void *)0
<_Heat> NULL affects everything that uses C
<zid> because it is
<nikolar> yeah, it's only the linux kernel right
<nikolar> no biggy
<_Heat> everyone, except the ones who don't
<zid> There's literally no implementations anyone uses or cares about not breaking with newer standards
<zid> that use
<zid> 0
<nikolar> ^^^
<zid> They're running C89 -std= already
<nikolar> that's the whole argument
<nikolar> if something is going to implement c23, it's already doing (void *)0
<_Heat> you should have made that argument
<zid> I'd rather the four people relying on 0 null
<zid> break
<nikolar> i am not on the comittee
<zid> than EVERYBODY ELSE
<zid> I don't know enough C++ to be on the comittee
<_Heat> no one broke with nullptr
<zid> (Every single C committee member is a C++ member)
<_Heat> yeah no shit
<nikolar> lol
<_Heat> there's no money is doing C compiler work
<nikolar> ok
<zid> so why don't they fuck off breaking things then
<zid> if there's no money
<nikolar> don't mess with the frontend then
<nikolar> leave c be
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<zid> They apparently did it for shits and giggles, then
<nikolar> instead of adding c++ junk
<_Heat> but C sucks
<nikolar> c++ sucks harder
<zid> Yes, and it isn't fixed by adding MORE JUNK
<zid> It's fixed by fixing it
<zid> If you fix it by adding more junk, you end up with C++
<zid> and your basic pointer type changes every 2 years
<_Heat> you cannot fix it
<_Heat> you know why C++ is the way it is?
<_Heat> because you cannot fix it
<zid> Because they add junk to fix junk
<_Heat> you cannot break backwards compat
<zid> Because they add junk to fix junk
<_Heat> you can't fix junk
<zid> You can, AND THEY DID
<_Heat> you just can't do it
<_Heat> who? where?
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<zid> their rationale for not changing NULL was 'compatibility', then they changed bool
<zid> which BROKE COMPATIBILITY
<nikolar> adding nullptr fixed literally nothing
<_Heat> no one relies on bool being a typedef
<nikolar> it improved litearlly nothing
<nikolar> _Heat: some people do
<zid> except for all the code that relied on it not being a reserved keyword
<zid> which it now is
<nikolar> ^
<_Heat> they changed the C23 wording on realloc and it caused a bunch breakage and now the 2 big relevant C library implementations aren't going to follow it
<_Heat> warra win!
<_Heat> fixed junk!
<nikolar> that's because they made realloc retarded
<zid> not news: They don't fix things they just break things
<nikolar> another c23 fail
<_Heat> GOOD
<_Heat> THE WHOLE OF C IS
<zid> You're literally making our argument for us
<nikolar> lol
<zid> then claiming you won
<zid> like a pigeon shitting on the chess board
<nikolar> kek
<_Heat> god.
<nikolar> can't say i've heard of that expression before
<kof673> i've heard it before, but it seems more common now actually :D slowly gaining
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<Ermine> _Heat: i can run 90s software flawlessly on sle?
<_Heat> no
<Ermine> bummer
<_Heat> you can run whatever ran flawlessly when $SLE_VERSION released
<Ermine> that's kinda self-evident
<nikolar> only kinda
<_Heat> it is certainly not true for any !stable distro
<Ermine> vmware crashed :(
<nikolar> nice
<nikolar> don't use it :P
<Ermine> why
<nikolar> because it's vmware
<Ermine> that only makes me want to use it
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<nikolar> sure, go ahead using a shitty vm, it's your computer
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<_Heat> Ermine: dalias hasn't cut a release for so long I had to backport 60 commits
<Ermine> nikolar: it's not shitty
<Ermine> _Heat: geez
<nikolar> you just said it crashed
<nikolar> qemu never crashed for mw
<nikolar> *me
<nikolar> nor did virtual box for that metter lol
<nikolar> *matter
<nikolar> i can't words
<_Heat> good news, onyx is gcc 15 approved
<nikolar> congrats?
<zid> you mean gnu23 approved?
<_Heat> no, i force the std
<_Heat> i'm not an idiot
<Ermine> qemu doesn't even run windows in the first place
<zid> my code should all be gcc23 clean because I never use nullptr or bool as keywords, but I've not tested it
<Ermine> virtualbox did crash for me
<bslsk05> ​twitter: <iamtomskinner> Happy Saturday from the algarve. We’ve conquered the algarve and we are having a lovely time. Bosh❤️ https://video.twimg.com/amplify_video/1941523155069095936/vid/avc1/2160x3840/DBe1JTo-az9cFu-B.mp4?tag=21
<zid> This is what we have instead of rednecks, red..chests
<GeDaMo> Isn't there traditionally a comparison to gammon? :P
<zid> no you can be upper class and a gammon
<zid> oh, fun travle.earth today
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<carrar> haha the good life
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<_Heat> Ermine: dalias also writes every commit message fully in lower case
<_Heat> except for POSIX, C and C++
<_Heat> this is like tryhard nonchalant
<zid> i like heat he is my frend uwu please accept my POSIX patch pls.
<_Heat> > i like heat
<_Heat> fake news
<zid> clearly that isn't in my voice
<zid> my voice thinks you're dumb
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<Ermine> _Heat: you'll be laighing, but that's a requirement on my dayjob
<_Heat> indeed
<Ermine> he also uses only lowe case in irc
<_Heat> guyz shift key bork
<zid> I thought you toggled caps lock on and off heat
<_Heat> no, i copy paste uppercase letters when required
<Ermine> pt keymap moment?
<Ermine> dalias setup be like: cat msg | sed 's/posix/POSIX/' | sed 's/c++/C++/' | sed 's/c /C /'
<_Heat> with THE UNIX PIPELINE
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<zid> The unix pipeline is the one that ends with stripey socks right?
<zid> Ermine: That sounds great I love a misC message about POSIX.
* kof673 points at -e option to sed </arch user>
* kof673 zzzzzzzzzzzz
<_Heat> that's the rust pipeline
<zid> linux pipeline is you end up with a beard, unix pipeline is you end up not being able to grow one
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<Ermine> phew
<Ermine> I've finished Luxor
<GeDaMo> The whole city? :|
<zid> puzzle bobble thingy clone?
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<Ermine> zid: more of zuma clone
<zid> yea that
<zid> now 100% balatro
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<Ermine> ugh
<_Heat> agreed
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