klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
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<leoh> hello
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<nikolar> hellpo
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<Ermine> if insn_decoder_test fails, does it mean that compiler is fucked?
<heat> no
<heat> how does it fail?
<Ermine> > arch/x86/tools/insn_decoder_test: error: malformed line 5977902: 2_>:ffffffff81f188e0
<Ermine> (it's not my error)
<heat> weird
<heat> either objdump is broken or awk is broken
<heat> what toolchain version, awk is this?
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<nikolar> what toolchain even is that
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<heat> a guy contributing to nouveau
<nikolar> ok?
<heat> it's unclear what business critical part is using nouveau, but they are using it in some ways
<heat> just sayin it's not lol felt like it material
<nikolar> oh nvidia guy contributing to nouveau
<nikolar> right
<nikolar> > it's unclear what business critical part is using nouveau
<nikolar> indeed
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<Ermine> heat: nvmd, that error was fixed by patches which were not picked up by amdgpu tree yet
<heat> ok cool
<heat> which patches?
<heat> also > amdgpu tree
<heat> my condolences to all people involved
<Ermine> c250b0723a61160521c87c8e837baa54c13506fc and 9e2a872c144729b149a4b0de2fac5c254e078b2b
<heat> which tree? those are not in mainline
<Ellenor> using linux, which is not perfect but better than hardenedbsd, and then going back to hardenedbsd, reminds me of how, in effect, desktop computing is a really shonky real-time system which commonly violates its response guarantees, and how Linux seems to do that less ofhen than HardenedBSD
<Ermine> oops 9d7a0577c9db35c4cc52db90bc415ea248446472 and c104c16073b7fdb3e4eae18f66f4009f6b073d6f
<Ermine> 9d7a specifically
<heat> uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh how does that fix the insn decoder test?
<Ermine> idk, but they fix it
<Ermine> well, it's not on my side, and that guy has it fixed, so whatever
<nikolar> well linux and bsds really aren't real-time at all
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<Ellenor> indeed they aren't, and that's where the problem is
<nikolar> they aren't claiming to be real-time either
<nikolar> (ignoring linux-rt etc)
<Ellenor> true, true
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<Ermine> multimedia stuff is soft real time
<Ermine> that's why pipewire has -20 nice value and SCHED_RR
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<nikolar> yeah
<nikolar> but that's not actual real time
<nikolar> it's just best effort
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<Ermine> yes
<Ermine> hard real time is not what you need on desktops
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<Ermine> hard real time is for automotive, avionics, etc
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<zid> but I love my cpu waking up 5000 times a second and then exploding because something used more than 200 microseconds of runtime!
<zid> that's just discriminatory
<nikolar> zid install linux-rt
<heat> yeah then your cpu wakes up 10000 times a second
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<nikolar> problem solved
<zid> 100 microseconds is a lot of cpu time on a modern cpu, could do a lot of dsp
<nikolar> could do, yeah
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<geist> zid: i forget, you eventually got a newer cpu right?
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<zid> geist: I have a 5800x
<zid> and all of my problems with it can be immediately traced back to hyper-v it turns out :P
<geist> well i think i found your problem there
<zid> no I think I found it and you watched from your throne while I struggled :P
<zid> while people threw grapes into your open mouth
* heat throws a grape into geist's open mouth
* geist executes the lowest performing servant
* geist finds momentary amusement
<geist> i'd say i turned off hyper-v on windows, but i guess i didn,t because it sometimes use WSL2 and it needs that to run
<geist> i think i did turn off some of the hyper-v for address space separatino or whatnot feature
<mjg> lowest performing servant was spending their 20% on the vax
<kof673> frenchman: why dr. jones, whatever are you doing in such a nasty place? dr. jones: why don't you come down here and i'll show you?
<heat> geist: the secure kernel stuff?
<geist> yeah
<geist> mjg actually i spent half of yesterday trying to get a stable macos 7.1 install on my new mac SE/30
<geist> i think there's something slightly unstable about it
<mjg> i bet netbsd/vax would go smoothly
<geist> it ended up corrupting itself after a while and it randomly crashes every once in a while
<mjg> on the vax
<mjg> oh huh
<geist> it would actually, and does
<geist> i should probably re-cap the board before futzing with it too much more
<mjg> you mean you suspect hw or the fs
<mjg> os
<geist> and find a way to test the ram
<geist> hw
<zid> Time for dinner, 50p of butter on 10p of biscuits
<geist> as in it does randomly crash in various apps every once in a while. i chalked it up to 'macos classic is unstable' but the fact that i can't generally get through a complete reinstall of the system without it crashing...
<zid> because I cbf to cook again
<geist> mjg: but you can run A/UX or even netbsd on a mac se/30 so may do that
<mjg> well i can't comment on mac os 7.1 specifically
<geist> A/UX at least would be entertaining
<mjg> but the old operating systems crashing is liek expected
<mjg> and i don't even mean windows 9x
<zid> The best thing about old OSs is that they're all equally bereft of software you might actually want to run ;)
<heat> except linux, linux is ROCK SOLID
<geist> yah i mean macos has no memory protection, it just has a flat address space that multiple programs allocate blocks out of
<mjg> right
<mjg> it's all wild west with these fuckers
<heat> kernel crash? no worries no problem just kill the process and keep going
<heat> nothing happened
<mjg> even WITH memory protection
<geist> even virtual memory i think it just builds a page file the size of whateve rVM size you have given it
<geist> and it just presumably demand pages stuff in
<geist> but hey that's micer than win 3.1. at least it's a 68k so it has no segmentation shenanigans
<mjg> all that said netbsd working there, apart from a nice experiment, would serve as a data point
<mjg> (or not working for that matter)
<geist> the SE/30 just has 0-0x4000.0000 is RAM and above that is ROM (0x4....) and peripherals (0x5...)
<geist> so it's a very nice clean design to run a nice flat non protected OS on
<geist> mjg: precisely
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<nikolar> heat: kernel crash? just kexec, no worries, nothing happened
<heat> that's the userspace approach
<heat> crash? don't worry bro just restart the service
<nikolar> indeed
<heat> so yesterday i found out all MSI motherboards wipe EFI variables on a firmware update
<heat> terrible.
<zid> kek
<heat> never again MSI
<nikolar> lol seriously
<nikolar> rip
<heat> i had to redo my fan curves, then get the arch iso and add a boot entry for GRUB
<zid> I'm surprised more things don't
<zid> it's very common for it to force a regular cmos update
<heat> i read that some motherboards allow you to export settings as json or whatever
<nikolar> well i better keep my efibootmgr command in my history kek
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<heat> the worst bit is that they seem to actively update the firmware too
<heat> like 4 or 5 updates over the last 6 months
<zid> amd do that, the bastards
<zid> they keep changing agesa or whatever it's called
<heat> yeah
<heat> and to make things even worse, they don't support fwupdmgr
<zid> Fixes the Spanish help tip issues when English is selected in BIOS F3.
<zid> Update - doesn't fix the Spanish text issue
<zid> :D
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<zid> all my bios updates since I got the board have been uefi vuln updates
<nikolar> kek
<nikolar> at least my laptop's firmware should be supported in fwupdmgr
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<nikolar> i've only ever got "UEFI dbx" and "UEFI CA" updates
<nikolar> i assume ca is certificate authority, but no clue what dbx is
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<zid> database of x
<heat> dbx = banned hashes
<nikolar> hashes of what?
<zid> So it's just bricking you out of updating to linux :P
<nikolar> efi payloads?
<heat> executables
<heat> yeah
<nikolar> so basically an antivirus db kek
<zid> revoked efi stubs because they allow you to run code
<zid> which is not ALLOWED
<nikolar> well good thing my secure boot is off
<heat> anyway if you've only seen those, then it's not supported for your laptop either
<heat> (probably9
<nikolar> it should be, it's a framework and they mention it on the website
<nikolar> btw, i have a device called "KEK CA" kek
<heat> ah ok
<nikolar> they even email you about firmware updates kek
<nikolar> i think i've only seen updates for the beta though
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<heat> onyx development is slowly becoming more and more just moving code around and fixing prior mistakes
<heat> that's how you know you're a real kernel
<nikolar> kerneler
<kof673> fatten it up :D > I say, therefore, that you must give gold to our old dragon to eat.
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