klange changed the topic of #osdev to: Operating System Development || Don't ask to ask---just ask! || For 3+ LoC, use a pastebin (for example https://gist.github.com/) || Stats + Old logs: http://osdev-logs.qzx.com New Logs: https://libera.irclog.whitequark.org/osdev || Visit https://wiki.osdev.org and https://forum.osdev.org || Books: https://wiki.osdev.org/Books
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<nikolar> heat: oy
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<heat> nikolar: oy
<nikolar> yo soy nikola
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<MelMalik> jo soc Mel
<pog> ég heiti gog
<nikolar> 私の名前はニコラです。
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<kof673> nikolar, just name your thing schwarzfs it is a synonym for kek lol > ("The White Wolf"), a king gets lost during a dark night, until a "schwarzen Jäger" ('dark hunter') > schwärzen verb black [verb] to make black
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<Jari--> yooohoo people of the world
<Jari--> Ubuntu fans
<pog> who?
<Jari--> just happy I am able to code the kernel
<pog> how
<pog> i'm unable to
<heat> have you tried ubuntu
<heat> i heard it helps
<pog> i don't use linux i'm not a loser
<GeDaMo> Not to be taken internally :|
<bslsk05> ​www.theregister.com: GhostBSD 25.02 adds 'Gershwin' desktop for a Mac-like twist • The Register
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<gog> oh is that meant ot be like dragonflybsd?
<heat> ghostflybsd
<pog> ghostface killah bsd
<pog> old dirty bsd
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<pog> every member of the wu tang clan has a bsd
<pog> except method man he has a linux distro
<heat> who in wu tang uses openbsd?
<pog> GZA, clearly
<heat> i disagree, i think gza is on netbsd
<pog> we should ask him
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<geist> this conversation is gold. a++ would buy again
<Ermine> my asus tinker board has arrived
<Ermine> this time with upstream everything
<geist> oh yeah?
<geist> oh btw interesting writeup on a new announced risc-v core: https://chipsandcheese.com/p/condors-cuzco-risc-v-core-at-hot
<bslsk05> ​chipsandcheese.com: Condor’s Cuzco RISC-V Core at Hot Chips 2025
<geist> has a kinda interesting way of dealing with scheduling
<Ermine> want to run lk on it?
<gog> i was gonna do osdev but i'm eepy
<geist> you're an eepc?
<zid> I too am an eepy sea
<geist> i guess it's better than being a packard bell
<gog> i'm an acer revo
<sbalmos> is your middle name Asus?
<heat> i'm a linux kernel
<zid> gog: You're not acer, I'm acer.
<heat> Ermine: onyx!
<gog> anyhow my pre-boot environment has mmap() for fds
<Ermine> heat: its armv7
<heat> time to port buddy
<Ermine> heat: tbh its pain to support
<Ermine> no psci on this board for example
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<geist> yeah it's 32bit, i dont know if any pure arm32s that actually do full psci
<geist> since there's no EL3 for it to run into
<geist> cortex-a17
<clever> geist: isnt that what smc mode was for?
<geist> oh i have to page it all back in again. there was an ability to do secure/nonsecure, but it wasn't via a strict 4 ring system like armv8 added
<clever> yeah
<clever> it was more mucky
<bslsk05> ​developer.arm.com: Documentation – Arm Developer
<geist> i guess you're right. smc would have made a secure call, so you could i guess carve out a secure mode firmware and trap it
<clever> user, fiq, irq, supervisor, monitor, abort, hyp, system
<clever> and "monitor" mode is where PSCI runs
<geist> yah monitor mode
<geist> okay, so i guess you could implement psci. i jsut dunno if anyone every bothered doing that. can you build the ATF stuff for pure arm32?
<clever> monitor is secure-only, hyp is non-secure only, the rest support both secure and non-secure
<clever> so its up to monitor to set the NS bit correctly when dropping into another level
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<geist> yah and also program the memory controller to mark the S memory off limits so the rest can't mess with it, etc
<geist> since unlike armv8 i suspect it disables paging the instant you enter it (unless all the paging structures are shadowed, like armv8)
<geist> this was all added late to the arm32 stuff, mostly after i had moved on and worked with armv8 and 64bit/32bit world there
<clever> related, from what ive been able to find out, the NS bit on the arm axi bus, isnt wired up to the memory controller on the rpi products
<clever> so you cant do that
<clever> however, the secure flag in the memory controller, is still wired up to the VPU
<clever> so you can still have secure vs non-secure in the VPU side, but i'm not sure which role the arm is stuck in
<geist> that's interesting, so that means you can break into ATF as well, since there's no way to really mark it off limits
<clever> yep
<geist> thanks broadcomm
<clever> its more that they never trusted arm to begin with, and they treat the VPU as the secure monitor
<clever> its more like intel management engine, an entire dedicated co-processor with higher privs
<geist> but since the arm side is not really trustworthy, S or NS coming from the arm world is mostly irrelevant
<geist> so the VPU can't really trust it either
<clever> bingo
<geist> so it can't really tell where any directives are coming from
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<geist> OTOH <shrug> it'snot really intended to be a secure server or whatnot
<geist> if you tried to put a bunch of 16GB rpi5s and run some sort off cloud off it, good luck
<clever> yeah, it feels more like it was designed to be a locked down media streaming box
<clever> hence why the roku 2XS is based around a bcm2835
<geist> well, i guess EL1 should still be pretty 'secure' from other ones because EL2
<clever> yeah
<geist> but really it is i guess a valid thing. see apple ARM hardware: no S/NS, no EL3. just EL2 down
<geist> and then whatever external microcontroller they do for secure stuff
<clever> doesnt that mac also have an x86 core in the hdmi port?
<geist> i would be highly surprised
<geist> since they'd have to pay intel for that
<clever> let me find it
<geist> if they did i bet they've replaced it by now since they have ARM cores all over that thing
<clever> ah, link expired
<clever> but the title is cached by reddit
<clever> > Apple's M1 Mac Mini has an embedded x86 CPU in its MCDP2920 DisplayPort to HDMI converter chip
<geist> oh that's just some random chip they're using with a built in thing
<geist> i was half expecting it to be an 8051 which are all over the place, and someone calling it 'intel'
<geist> but in this case, i suspect this comment is correct: "It's an x86-compatible but the V186 is by VAutomation not Intel."
<Ermine> <geist> okay, so i guess you could implement psci. i jsut dunno if anyone every bothered doing that. can you build the ATF stuff for pure arm32? --- it doesn't build bl31 for aarch32
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<bslsk05> ​gmplib.org: GMP and AMD Zen 5 CPUs
<heat> loller
<geist> yeah i'm going to try not to push mine at all
<heat> i'm glad i only have the 9900X
<heat> lower TDP might help it not melt
<heat> hopefully.
<geist> does it actually have a lower TDP? sometimes the less cores just means it's going to clock a little higher under full load
<heat> yeah it's 120W
<heat> vs 165W for the 9950X
<Ermine> also, kernel crashes if you build it with psci and you have psci node in device tree but it's not present
<heat> why would it have a psci node in the dt if it's not there
<gog> is that related to the issue of AM5 cpus getting fried because the mobos are secretly overvolting them in performance power profiles?
<gog> iirc it was asroc mobos with b650 chipsets
<heat> these are ASUS boards
<gog> afaik these were exhibiting the problem at some point too
<gog> but that was a couple years ago from what i find
<Ermine> heat: this node was in device tree i've extracted from obscure board at dayjob
<Ermine> rk3288-based too
<zid> it was a global aegsa problem
<gog> oops
<zid> I have my current machine because my friend was worried he had been hit by it and just bought an entire new PC lol
<zid> to be fair, it was unstable for a bit when i got it, but I am 90% sure it was all just bugs in hyper-v lol
<geist> well good to remind me that i should update the bios frequently
<geist> which i usually do, but maybe more than usual this time
<heat> you clearly don't have an MSI board
<geist> but it's ASUS
<geist> as i've been generally using more or less exclusively the last 15 years or so
<geist> and have not yet been burned
<heat> ba dum tss
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