<rainthree>
SCORE is different from all modern engraving programs, it is more like traditional manual engraving with a chisel and hammer or with stamps. Its main feature is that it doesn't mess things out 'automatically': after engraving a portion, unlike modern software, you can be sure the elements will not be repositioned and ruin your work (disturb your layout)
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<rainthree>
the newest and most famous player on the market is Dorico which replaced Finale (which was discontinued). Here's a relevant quote from a Dorico user: "But there HAS to be a way to just simply *put things where I need them*, right? Trying to not burst into tears here, but I cannot for the life of me get chords to work.". That's the feeling when working with these software..
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<beach>
rainthree: Nice!
<beach>
rainthree: The MuseScore people claim that it is better than everything else.
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<beach>
rainthree: But I think it is written in C++. It is beyond me that anyone would attempt to write such a complex application in a language without automatic memory management.
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<rainthree>
"I have a much greater affection for MuseScore 2 than for MuseScore 4. I loved MuseScore 2 because it responded so readily to user input that I could write anything I wanted. The latest version, MuseScore 4, makes it easy to prevent the engraving from falling apart, and it is possible to produce a relatively neat score without making fine adjustments. However, this tends to limit the user's operations, and there are many
<rainthree>
behaviors that get in the way of making fine adjustments. The old version of MuseScore 2 that I have been using responds very obediently to user operations, so not only is it easy to make fine adjustments, but you can also forcefully reproduce notations that are not included in the software's functions without any interference from the software. However, this obedient behavior without limiters in MuseScore 2 makes it
<rainthree>
easy to destroy the engraving, so it is difficult to recommend the old version at this point."
<ixelp>
Love musescore, but 4 is tedious and bulky. Still using 3. Anyone else feel this way?
<rainthree>
"Musescore is a fantastic piece of sotware, but I'm done with 4: my heart just left my throat to return to its normal climes after another session of corrupted files and unresponsiveness"
<ixelp>
I didn't realise exporting midi needed 42 of my 8GB of ram :(
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<beach>
rainthree: Just like writers don't know the rules of typography, composers and musicians don't know the rules of music engraving. So a program that forces the user to make engraving decisions might be a good tool for a trained engraver, but a program meant for composers or musicians must encode and apply the rules of engraving so that the result is somewhat acceptable.
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<rainthree>
yes
<beach>
When I gave talks about Gsharp to composers, and I mentioned that they know nothing about music engraving, they were very insulted, until I quoted a few such rules and I showed them a few scores where the rules were violated. Then they understood.
<rainthree>
yeah.. they have no idea that it's a different art that requires specific training
<beach>
Exactly.
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<rainthree>
beach: I exaggerated a bit when I said Leland Smith's SCORE is more like using a chisel and hammer, because actually it does apply some default rules of engraving automatically; and you can adjust the rules and also manually adjust the elements. It exposes all the parameters of each element to the user and also allows one to add new symbols to the library. It's just not very user friendly
<beach>
I see.
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<rainthree>
for starters perhaps it's worth replicating its basic mechanism, or be inspired by it and make something better, because it stood the test of time. "It’s still my main engraving tool. I have Finale, Sibelius, Dorico, Graphire, and Berlioz—and while the quality of Score can be approached, none can truly reach it. That—of course—doesn’t mean that it’s the right tool for every project. It is truly just an engravi
<rainthree>
ng tool. I will often prepare an arrangement or orchestration in another tool and then engrave it in Score for distribution."
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<rainthree>
https://plaster.tymoon.eu/v/7CDXXOREY#4893 a few more quotes. (It wasn't easy to learn how to use this software. I had to read everything available on the internet+hundreds of pages from the manuals, multiple times. Also the software itself is not available - you can't buy it or download it from anywhere - I had to message a few dozens people until someone emailed me his floppy disk images)
<beach>
The guy who calls himself Tantacrul has a video on YouTube where he talks about Score, but I can't remember which one.
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<ixelp>
How I Designed a Free Music Font for 5 Million Musicians (MuseScore 3.6)
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<beach>
Yeah, I think that's the one.
<beach>
He has other videos where he complains about other engraving programs.
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<beach>
rainthree: To bring this discussion back to Common Lisp, I can mention that one important thing we need for Clovetree is for McCLIM to support OTF fonts. scymtym has been working a bit on OTF support, but it is not finished, and I believe not available (yet).
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<beach>
So if someone is interested in such a project, perhaps talk to scymtym about it.
<younder>
I'm pulling in 'the rest' of SICL into a local ForeJo server. Hope to integrate it into Jenkins so I can try out some integration tests.
<beach>
I don't know what ForeJo and Jenkins are. And I am not sure you can do much with SICL code at this time.
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<pl>
Sounds like forgejo, which is just a source control server for git (a so called forge). Jenkins is a task runner used for Continuous Integration
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<beach>
Thanks.
<rainthree>
beach: ok, I'll read about OTF fonts (and hopefully also talk to scymtym when he is around)
<beach>
Great!
<beach>
rainthree: It's a difficult project, I think.
<rainthree>
ok
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<contrapunctus>
I'm trying to learn to use restarts. My program uses Dexador to send HTTP requests. I've defined a restart WAIT-AND-RETRY which will wait for some time, then call `DEX:RETRY-REQUEST`. I've also defined a handler for this, which also prints information about the condition to `*DEBUG-IO*`.
<contrapunctus>
Now I'm trying to define a restart which needs to have access to local variables in my low-level function, and I can't seem to figure out how to do that...
<contrapunctus>
Oh...maybe should I try subclassing DEXADOR.ERROR:HTTP-REQUEST-BAD-REQUEST and add some slots for the data I need to pass.
<rainthree>
show some code, the part where you defined the restart
<rainthree>
and the part with the local variables which you need to be accessed by the restart code
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<contrapunctus>
Ah, I think I got it - I don't need to pass the local variables, they're already available within the restart body...
<contrapunctus>
Thanks rainthree
<rainthree>
yes, they're available already
<rainthree>
you're welcome
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<contrapunctus>
I can't tell if my system FORMAT-SECONDS is available in Quicklisp or not - QL:SYSTEM-APROPOS says it is, but I can't find it on https://www.quicklisp.org/beta/releases.html
<ixelp>
Quicklisp beta releases
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<yitzi>
contrapunctus: the releases page is out of date.
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<contrapunctus>
Ah, thanks.
<yitzi>
It hasn't been updated for over a year.
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