jackdaniel changed the topic of #commonlisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | Wiki: <https://www.cliki.net> | IRC Logs: <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/libera/%23commonlisp> | Cookbook: <https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook> | Pastebin: <https://plaster.tymoon.eu/>
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<wohonajax> a few days ago i talked about testing with-output-to-string vs vector-push-extend for building strings... turns out i've got to issue a retraction. i may have forgotten to loop in my v-p-e test, w-o-t-s seems to be on par or better on retesting
<wohonajax> my bad :x
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<aeth> I would expect w-o-t-s to win because it (probably) creates a simple-string and the implementation can cheat there, unless there's a high stream overhead.
<aeth> (which is probably what I said a few days ago)
<wohonajax> fosskers was doing tests in the discord and w-o-t-s seems to create a simple-array character * by default. though apparently you can supply an element-type to w-o-t-s
<wohonajax> (it seems that simple-arrays are quite preferable as well compared to simple-strings etc)
<aeth> looks like a simple-string is a (simple-array character (*)) or some subtype of character. https://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/t_smp_st.htm
<ixelp> CLHS: Type SIMPLE-STRING
<bike> simple-string is a disjunction of all (simple-array X (*)) where X is a subtype of character. so it's not any particular specialized array type
<bike> so declaring things simple-string isn't that helpful for performance, since it doesn't tell the implementation the element type.
<aeth> so it is _a_ simple string, but it's not helpful to think of things as simple strings
<aeth> because there's more than one subtype
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<wohonajax> i guess i should mention that my v-p-e test did use copy-seq this time, so v-p-e may still be better slightly without it
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<ingeniot> acdw: vindarel wrote a web dev tutorial. There is user authentication https://web-apps-in-lisp.github.io/building-blocks/user-log-in/index.html
<ixelp> User log-in :: Web Apps in Lisp: Know-how
<ixelp> Sessions :: Web Apps in Lisp: Know-how
<ingeniot> I didn't try those yet, though.
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<jackdaniel> yuppie, I can now connect cl and slime with a websocket :)
* jackdaniel says some bad words about default encodings in processes in emacs
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<cmack> jackdaniel: nice. Did you use ahyatt's emacs-websocket package or your own?
<cmack> or maybe that emacs comment is throwing me off and it's neither...
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<acdw> :) ty ingeniot
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<ingeniot> acdw: My pleasure! :-)
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<jackdaniel> cmack: that's the one, yes
<jackdaniel> slime is emacs package, so I need a shim on emacs side too
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<skeemer> hello everyone... i am starting with common lisp and was wondering if there was a way to set the .slime directory... since it popllutes my home
<skeemer> is there any way to save the .slime and the .slime history file in another directory, e.g., XDG directories or inside .local/share/slime or something like that
<jackdaniel> skeemer: you may customzie the variable slime-repl-history-file for the latter
<skeemer> thanks jackdaniel what about the other one?
<jackdaniel> as for ~/slime you need to customzie it on swank side, there is a variable *fasl-directory* or something (i.e you could put it in lispinit)
<jackdaniel> I'd onestly jsut modify the variable value if it had bothered me
<jackdaniel> honestly*
<jackdaniel> (i.e in the source file directly)
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<skeemer> in the source?
<skeemer> i cannot set it up with emacs init.el ?
<skeemer> what is the lispinit? you mean sbclrc ?
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<skeemer> ok i think i am probably used to do things in a different way but in cl maybe it is okay to change the source directly
<skeemer> problem being, what is there is an update, should i re-apply all the time my patches?
<skeemer> or is there a smarter way here to do thinga
<jackdaniel> skeemer: slime comes in two parts -- SLIME that is an emacs package
<jackdaniel> and SWANK that is a Common Lisp angent that connects to it
<skeemer> ok i follow up to here
<skeemer> so?
<jackdaniel> slime-history is part of the emacs lisp program, so you may customize it in init.el; but fasls (stored ~/.slime) are written by swank, so the directory is specified in there
<acdw> i have embraced the zen of a messy homedir
<jackdaniel> I'm sure that there is some sanctioned way to customzie the fasl directory but I've never bothered myself with looking that up
<ixelp> slime/swank-loader.lisp at 1634b952ff2b0354141ef5e7b88fd9af3f4b5763 · slime/slime
<skeemer> here it tries to explain... i copied that code and it does not work...
<skeemer> because i probably don't know where to get the swank loader file
<jackdaniel> swank-loader is shipped along with slime
<jackdaniel> if you take slime from (say) emacs elpa, then it is in /home/skeemer/some/path/to/elpa/packages/slime/slime-loader.lisp
<skeemer> ohh i will have to change the path everytime, after each update then right?
<skeemer> since every package has a directory name with a version iir
<skeemer> iirc
* jackdaniel shrugs
<skeemer> jackdaniel: wait i have to put this in the sbclrc right? since in the init.el it gives me an error about a missing cl:defpackage
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<jackdaniel> as the comment says, you need to put it between loading the loader and invoking it
<jackdaniel> so I don't think that you will get away without modifying the source code after all
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* acdw considers writing a macro that isn't really necessary for a personal codebase
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<jackdaniel> (defmacro expand-longer () (sleep 42))
<acdw> (defmacro first-with-client (&body body) (sleep 42) body) (defmacro speed-up (&body body) body)
<acdw> or something
<jackdaniel> (defmacro wizard-of-oz (&body) (sleep -10) body)
<acdw> :O
<acdw> tbh i almost pulled a `,@body in there. not using backquote in a macro feels wrong
<acdw> wait a minute. that'll only sleep at compile time lmao, i didn't realize that at first
<jackdaniel> it won't work though
<jackdaniel> it should be `(progn ,@body)
<jackdaniel> otherwise forms like (print a) (print b) will end up in the expansion as ((print a) (print b)) and (print a) is not a valid operator name
<acdw> oh yeah lol
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<skeemer> jackdaniel: no ? but it seems to work
<jackdaniel> if it works then congrats
<skeemer> ok jackdaniel but so i should change the source code to every update?
<skeemer> i want to try the "edit the code" solution too
<skeemer> i mean... should i change the source everytime?
<acdw> probably
<acdw> it'll likely revert on updates
<skeemer> yes exactly
<jackdaniel> just install slime manuallyh and load your off-tree version
<skeemer> so probably one thing is to write a patch file... but it would be a bit flicky
<jackdaniel> I have slime in my local-projects for development purposes
<skeemer> off-tree version?
<jackdaniel> and I'm loading slime.el using load, not require
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<skeemer> ok so i can't update it basically right?
<jackdaniel> you can
<skeemer> but my question is more... how do i make this patch repeatable? what if i reinstall slime in one year and i forget
<jackdaniel> if you want to fix a problem in software then you may try to change the software itself
<jackdaniel> by proposing a change; I don't know what I can tell you
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<acdw> i think that's the thing, you can't guarantee it'll apply correctly every time. you'd have to just manually change it
<skeemer> jackdaniel: they already proposed
<acdw> or yeah, proposing a change upstream
<skeemer> they did that
<skeemer> but it was not integrated
<skeemer> jackdaniel: i am interested in this off-tree solution
<jackdaniel> then install some version, patch it and never update
<skeemer> how would it work? i mean i update and then patch?
<jackdaniel> that would work too
<jackdaniel> but if you ask me, I think that it is a lot of hassle to just move one hidden directory
<skeemer> jackdaniel: ok is there a way to trigger the patch after the install?
<skeemer> jackdaniel: i know but a lot of software putting these hidden dirs is polluting my home
<jackdaniel> you are asking me questions outside of my expertise now (:
<skeemer> thanks anyway! really
<jackdaniel> download slime, modify the relevant parts of the source code, put it in init.el and forget about it
<acdw> or embrace the mess - i used to be hardcore about XDG_CONFIG_HOME but lately i just put everything in ~
<acdw> i don't see it on ls, who cares
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<ixelp> Follow XDG Base Directory spec · Issue #610 · slime/slime
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<skeemer> i see there is a commit on a specific branch though, changes have not been integrated
<acdw> you can git clone $repo -b $branch (i think)
<Shinmera> HELLO y'all, just a quick note: I've moved all of my own and shirakumo's repositories from Github to Codeberg. The URLs can be transparently changed by replacing github.com with codeberg.org, though I would recommend instead using https://shinmera.com/project/foo and https://shirakumo.org/project/foo as I can update those redirects if a move should ever happen again in the future.
<Shinmera> Currently documentation pages are still hosted on github, but I'll move those to my own server soon, and I'll take care of updating Quicklisp links and locking down the Github mirrors and so on.
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<acdw> nice! thanks for all your great projects btw - i make use of many of them and find the documentation really good
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<Shinmera> Happy to hear! :)
<skeemer> Shinmera: are you also into scheme / racket?
<Shinmera> no
<aeth> for those unaware of what's going on with GitHub: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44865560
<ixelp> GitHub is no longer independent at Microsoft after CEO resignation | Hacker News
<acdw> yeah it seems pretty dire tbh. i deleted all my repos from there. gonna put up a <me> repo explaining why i don't have anything there any more
<aeth> in particular, it' snow part of Microsoft's CoreAI.
<aeth> which means (1) they'll probably do a merge with Microsoft Accounts at some point if they did that even to Minecraft, (2) the fate of GitHub and all FOSS hosting is now directly tied to an obvious financial bubble
<acdw> cool cool cool
<aeth> (Lispers of all people should know that AI works in boom-and-bust)
<jackdaniel> MS gobbles Github, how would have thought :p
<Shinmera> yeah I've been thinking about this for years at this point
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<Shinmera> I just finally decided to swallow the pill I guess
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<contrapunctus> Shinmera: oh, that's excellent news! Thanks! 🫶
<dlowe> local-time is also at https://codeberg.org/dlowe/local-time but changes will still be mirrored to github until I can get quicklisp switched over
<ixelp> local-time
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<decweb> Does codeberg work with ultralisp?
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<tux0r> ultralisp *still* needs fossil support. migrating from one git forge to the next sounds dull.
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<screwlisp> How is everyone.
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<tux0r> tired
<screwlisp> Such is life
<screwlisp> Are you prepared to be energized? I started reading Symbolics' CLIM manual. I'm going to try and mention that to jlamothe (whom we're interviewing in 45 minutes) as many times as I possibly can
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<screwlisp> ldb o/
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<screwlisp> Okay, we're going live in 5. https://anonradio.net:8443/anonradio presumably some music until then.
<screwlisp> I'll sorta watch here but paradise sushi in lambda is where the action happens.