brokkoli_origin has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
brokkoli_origin has joined #commonlisp
jonatack has joined #commonlisp
jonatack has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
zwr has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
jonatack has joined #commonlisp
zwr has joined #commonlisp
Alfr has joined #commonlisp
jonatack has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
leeb_ has joined #commonlisp
leeb has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
random-nick has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
triffid has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
akoana has quit [Quit: leaving]
Bolichon has joined #commonlisp
ixelp has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
vidak has joined #commonlisp
ixelp has joined #commonlisp
Bolichon has quit [Quit: Leaving]
Bolichon has joined #commonlisp
Bolichon has quit [Client Quit]
Bolichon has joined #commonlisp
triffid has joined #commonlisp
Bolichon has quit [Quit: Leaving]
Bolichon has joined #commonlisp
Bolichon has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Bolichon has joined #commonlisp
Bolichon has quit [Client Quit]
Bolichon has joined #commonlisp
Bolichon has quit [Client Quit]
fosskers has joined #commonlisp
vidak has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
Bolichon has joined #commonlisp
Bolichon has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
chomwitt has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
admich1 has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds]
admich1 has joined #commonlisp
vidak has joined #commonlisp
Lycurgus has joined #commonlisp
vidak has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
vidak has joined #commonlisp
<beach>
aeth: Even if they'll never finish, I think it is important to show that a better one can indeed be created.
decweb has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
<Lycurgus>
they'll never finish if they use the old thinking about OS but in that case they shouldna started in the first place
<Lycurgus>
plenty of room outside the wage shop thought space
<Lycurgus>
was just looking at FrameNet which reminds me of the US democratic party
<Lycurgus>
Framenet is the product of an academic dept not a wage shop but they are partners in mediocrity and narrow thinking
<Lycurgus>
the noble and not so nobel snakepits
<Lycurgus>
there are some differences since 2015 (hdw) but they are marginal improvements and/or economic
<Lycurgus>
nobel was a typo but works so not correcting
Lycurgus has quit [Quit: irc.renjuan.org (juan@acm.org)]
vidak has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
edgar-rft has joined #commonlisp
edgar-rft` has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
jrm has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
vidak has joined #commonlisp
jrm has joined #commonlisp
dra has joined #commonlisp
cow_2001 has joined #commonlisp
bpanthi977 has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
attila_lendvai has joined #commonlisp
rgherdt has joined #commonlisp
ingeniot has joined #commonlisp
vidak has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<TMA>
speaking of OSes, what is the current state of development of CLOSOS? The https://closos.codeberg.page/ says 'As of January 2023, ...' which was more than two years ago
<beach>
TMA: The basis for CLOSOS is SICL, and we are still working on SICL.
<fosskers>
Any timeline for a SICL (pre)release? Wondering when I can start testing my libraries against it.
<beach>
Not really. Sorry.
<beach>
fosskers: I have no idea who made that site on codeberg.
<beach>
We now have lots of independent libraries that can be used to create a Common Lisp implementation, so that's already great progress for SICL the project, but I am still working on bootstrapping in order to create SICL the Common Lisp implementation.
<fosskers>
Cool, thanks for the update. It's one of those projects I'll continue to have my eye on. AL is another. Once they have standalone REPLs and a built-in ASDF then it's off to the races with testing, benchmarking, etc.
<beach>
Sounds good.
ingeniot has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
pve has joined #commonlisp
fosskers has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
dra has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
jrm has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
chkhd is now known as chkhd`
admich1 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
admich1 has joined #commonlisp
lcn_ has joined #commonlisp
greenfork has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
sirufer has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
theothornhill has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
bheesham has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
payphone has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
simendsjo has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
artyn has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
tok has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
mhcat has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
bmp has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
shunter has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
zyd has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
rselim has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
sherbert has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
arpunk has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
PuercoPop has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
dieggsy has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
whereiseveryone has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
tsujp has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
mcoll has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
x4d6165 has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
cpli has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
sm2n has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
gjn has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
mgxm has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
paulapatience has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ggb has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
pvac has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
johuck has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
Schnouki has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
chiheisen has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
larme has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
okflo has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
jonlevin has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
kingcons has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
HerlockSholmes has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
emacsomancer has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ajoberstar has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
loopified has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
jasom has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
srhm has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
jmbr has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
jtbx has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
slondr has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
timmy has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
gosha_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
kvik has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ndanilov_ has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
<mesaoptimizer>
I see no mention of elephant (https://elephant.common-lisp.dev/) on /r/common_lisp, and seems quite rare for people to even talk about using object prevalence systems. Is it very uncommon for people to use object prevalence systems?
ndanilov has joined #commonlisp
jrm has joined #commonlisp
<pl>
they used to be more popular but honestly, didn't deliver as much or weren't as convenient as using classic RDBMS
mwnaylor has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
brokkoli_origin has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
sammat has joined #commonlisp
mwnaylor has joined #commonlisp
<mesaoptimizer>
pl: how so? (any writings about it that I can read?)
<pl>
mesaoptimizer: not much formal writing, but: 1) less people are familiar with object prevalence outside of ORMs and maybe basic serialization 2) popcultural osmosis against object prevalence systems (not exactly logical but non trivial factor) 3) most prevalence systems have limitations that for various reasons made people not use them
<pl>
4) those limitations often go into operational limitations that make such systems harder to support in production
<aeth>
persistent object stuff seems to fall in a bad middle ground between simple and deterministic (but semi-manual) serialization (either to text or a very simple binary format, but either way basically just flat files) and regular RDBMS usage, which should be rock solid for your data
<aeth>
anything that's easy to serialize will be easy to serialize, and anything that's hard to serialize will probably hit edge cases in a library that nobody uses
<aeth>
I mean, anything that's easy to serialize will be easy to semi-manually serialize with the simple method
brokkoli_origin has joined #commonlisp
<pl>
it honestly does not help that no, *ANSI* CL is not necessarily serialization friendly in the same way as let's say Java or Ruby or C#
<pl>
not because it can't be, but because some stuff was left outside scope of the standard
sammat has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<pl>
with Elephant, consider that it's last release was "alpha" in 2008
King_julian has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]
<aeth>
which was before Reddit had subreddits iirc
<aeth>
not like Reddit has ever been a place where much Lisp discussion takes place, that was more old Hacker News (you rarely see it after 2018 or so, though)
King_julian has joined #commonlisp
<aeth>
for a long time, HN was basically just a mix of r/programming and r/lisp, with a bit of startups and a bit of complaining about things that only people in San Francisco would complain about
inline has joined #commonlisp
chomwitt has joined #commonlisp
bpanthi977 has joined #commonlisp
bpanthi977 has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
sherbert has joined #commonlisp
shunter has joined #commonlisp
whereiseveryone has joined #commonlisp
slondr has joined #commonlisp
okflo has joined #commonlisp
HerlockSholmes has joined #commonlisp
dieggsy has joined #commonlisp
ggb has joined #commonlisp
arpunk has joined #commonlisp
kingcons has joined #commonlisp
paulapatience has joined #commonlisp
pvac has joined #commonlisp
mhcat has joined #commonlisp
Schnouki has joined #commonlisp
gosha_ has joined #commonlisp
mgxm has joined #commonlisp
larme has joined #commonlisp
jonlevin has joined #commonlisp
jtbx has joined #commonlisp
greenfork has joined #commonlisp
zyd has joined #commonlisp
sirufer has joined #commonlisp
tsujp has joined #commonlisp
PuercoPop has joined #commonlisp
srhm has joined #commonlisp
kvik has joined #commonlisp
gjn has joined #commonlisp
jmbr has joined #commonlisp
jasom has joined #commonlisp
sm2n has joined #commonlisp
chiheisen has joined #commonlisp
bheesham has joined #commonlisp
simendsjo has joined #commonlisp
bmp has joined #commonlisp
cpli has joined #commonlisp
mcoll has joined #commonlisp
theothornhill has joined #commonlisp
ajoberstar has joined #commonlisp
x4d6165 has joined #commonlisp
payphone has joined #commonlisp
loopified has joined #commonlisp
johuck has joined #commonlisp
emacsomancer has joined #commonlisp
timmy has joined #commonlisp
tok has joined #commonlisp
artyn has joined #commonlisp
rselim has joined #commonlisp
treflip has joined #commonlisp
brokkoli_origin has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds]
yitzi has joined #commonlisp
Lord_of_Life_ has joined #commonlisp
Lord_of_Life has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds]
Lord_of_Life_ is now known as Lord_of_Life
random-nick has joined #commonlisp
brokkoli_origin has joined #commonlisp
dra has joined #commonlisp
chomwitt has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds]
chomwitt has joined #commonlisp
admich1 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
decweb has joined #commonlisp
admich1 has joined #commonlisp
Spawns_Carpeting has quit [Quit: ZNC 1.8.2+deb3.1+deb12u1 - https://znc.in]
Spawns_Carpeting has joined #commonlisp
treflip has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
nytpu has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
nytpu has joined #commonlisp
ndanilov has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
ndanilov has joined #commonlisp
ndanilov has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
ndanilov has joined #commonlisp
Lycurgus has joined #commonlisp
Bolichon has joined #commonlisp
Bolichon has quit [Remote host closed the connection]