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<screwlisp>
o/ Vassil should be live today talking about introducing configureable assertions using a macro package (sez me; tune in in an hour at 0UTC to find out if I am right) https://anonradio.net
<ixelp>
// aNONradio // – [LIVE]: Organized Chaos with m3g5
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<screwlisp>
No Shiza today (?) but she will record something on semantics for a later episode (time zones, 2am is not as acceptable as 1am)
<screwlisp>
There's also something I am not allowed to announce ;p
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<screwlisp>
Do /you/ check types? tee bee aitch I didn't watch Coalton's talk from ELS25 yet
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<g-gundam>
screwlisp: I was really impressed by what Coalton was able to do.
<screwlisp>
Yeah, but I got behind on what it is even like at this point so I probably shouldn't incorrectly speculate about it live
<g-gundam>
for sure
<screwlisp>
Like, was it the ACL2-guards-but-its-common-lisp one
<screwlisp>
I'm interested to hear what Vassil thinks about macro time type assertion configuration or whatever today's episode is actually about
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<screwlisp>
My plan to derail it is to ask about signalling conditions generally as opposed to /just/ doing type assertions, but this abutts the secret subtopic
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<screwlisp>
Do /you/ have a description of Coalton I can pass on second hand, g-gundam? You seem trustworthy ;p
<g-gundam>
screwlisp: I have not written a single line of Coalton code yet, but if I were pressed, I'd call it an unlazy Haskell in Lispy clothes.
<g-gundam>
...with really good CL interop
<screwlisp>
Hah, so basically opposite world cl-series
<veqq>
I basically just want to use it for Common Lisp, maybe Clojure too. I'm primarily interested in how paredit, overall navegation etc. works. In lem, the navigation and paredit stuff overlap a bit and I'm not sure how to choose for my own config (but also lem has a few less options)
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<veqq>
Magit does seem cool, although I started using juju which seems to already cover it
<tux0r>
honestly, if lem works for you, you have no real reason to switch over to "an emacs"
<tux0r>
re:magit, as i don't use git, i can't tell much about it, but afaics there was a magit-like plugin for lem around
<veqq>
Well, lem feels a bit tedious. I'd need to learn quite a bit andreally customize it to get more out of it. I started looking at emacs for ideas of other buttons/functionality, and... Since e.g. Practical Common Lisp and Brave Clojure start with emacs commands etc. I thought maybe it'd make more sense to just live in emacs too, like everyone else?
<veqq>
But I can't decide if I'd just end up in the same spot needing to customize it a lot
<screwlisp>
veqq at least yduJ and I kinda use (gnu) emacs like it says on the back of the box. I think at least a few long-time lisp users are quite like that
<screwlisp>
Just to group myself with people who were using lisp before I was born
<tux0r>
everyone else uses emacs because it's been around for much longer than lem. i, for one, have been using emacs longer than common lisp though.
<veqq>
What do you mean by controlling emacs with slime? You can do an all CL config that way or?
<screwlisp>
But don't put so much effort into manually fiddling emacs with elisp
<tux0r>
but yep, you WILL end up configuring it all the time
<veqq>
I unfortunately spent 10 years using common lisp from vscode xD
<tux0r>
ew.
<screwlisp>
The good news is, life is about to get way better ;p
<screwlisp>
In that case, just use emacs slime out of the box, I think, or if you're cool, use sly
<screwlisp>
slime is the (common) lisp mode for emacs. It connects to a running lisp image running a swank server (you don't have to fiddle that yourself unless you want to)
<tux0r>
i don't think that "being cool" is something to consider when using emacs&lisp.
<screwlisp>
Not a big believer in lisp's "cachet" ?
<veqq>
Well, my main question was whether the different mode's commands overlap. Like, moving to the front of an s expr, writing (time) and then moving the back paren to the end of the whole thing, can that be easily done in emacs with paredit or would I need to config it etc.?
<veqq>
(lem uses slime too)
<tux0r>
paredit is only one of the available options.
<screwlisp>
Oh yeah I guess this is a question about how derived major modes culturally work in emacs
<cdegroot>
tux0r: if you code in Lisp, you can put Esq. behind your name, it's that cool.
<tux0r>
cdegroot: "tux0r" is literally my legal name, i already reached peak cool
<cdegroot>
You win :P
<veqq>
Something like that, yes. I just want to edit/navigate code better. Or like, if you download a new code base in emacs, how do you navigate and explore it? I found a side tree menu but i don't understand how to config it to open when i open the program, nor how to choose projects etc.
<tux0r>
veqq: to do things when opening "the program", add the command to your init file and/or in a hook
<cdegroot>
One of the important things, IMO, is to setup Emacs to be a Lisp structure editor (I'm on Doom, Evil-mode, and thus Lispyville). Night and day. Learn what slurp and barf do.
<tux0r>
ref.: emacs manual
<screwlisp>
I see that paredit is a minor mode
<screwlisp>
slime is a major mode
<screwlisp>
So I guess paredit will work with slime. I see there is paredit-everywhere which might cover some niche case. Sorry I don't use paredit personally, I'll ask if anyone does live during the show (in twenty minutes)
<tux0r>
cdegroot: evil-mode makes emacs an even weirder vim, i don't know whether that's a good idea tbh
<veqq>
cdegroot: I know how paredit works. But the issue is the navigation (e.g. moving cursor) seems to overlap the actual commands and I'd need to make my own lem mode, but idk how to choose well. But maybe emacs people have best practices? So i coud just use the emacs approach ...in emacs, and save time? Maybe
<cdegroot>
I had a long and mixed editor history, I ended up with this combo. Emacs is the better Vim and for me, the keybindings work.
<veqq>
Sorry for being vague, I don't know what I'm talking about, naturally
<veqq>
screwlisp: show?
<screwlisp>
veqq, slime etc don't mess with cursor movement commands
<veqq>
I'm not asking/talking about slime :D
<screwlisp>
Who even am I (by the way, vassil and kmp today...?)
<veqq>
The default emacs movement commands, I mean. At least on lem, the default movement overlaps with e.g. barf
<veqq>
And I'm tyring to find an easy way out of this mess
<veqq>
I don't like the vim idea of different nav and input modes.
<screwlisp>
I do a "weekly community brainstorm" live on Wednesday 0UTC (quarter of an hour from now) on https://anonradio.net:8443/anonradio - show before mine is basically old alt rock hits, YMMV
<cdegroot>
It's a trade-off. My hands are much saner now that I don't need to C-M-A-S-x to do a thing.
<screwlisp>
You won't be able to set up emacs from slime mode, because you would only connect after your init has happened. Sorry if I wasn't paying sufficient attention ;p
<veqq>
screwlisp: alt rock -> mariachi
<tux0r>
veqq: all editors have different nav and input modes. in notepad, it's "ctrl starts a nav mode", in acme, it's "the mouse starts a nav mode", in emacs, it's "everything starts a nav mode unless it's alphanumeric" ;o)
<veqq>
Oh. Thank you tux0r and everyone else for teaching me this sad truth.
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<screwlisp>
"Yeah I don't listen after I set up my mic, sorry for leading you to listen to mariachi under the pretense of it being alt rock ;p
<screwlisp>
Okay you better hit the button soon, if anyone has anything really deep to share live about lisp and types (and radio?) here I'll keep a third of an eye out.
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<veqq>
What's the best way of introducing types? intro to func prog through lambda calc implements both lisp and ML from lambda calc. And like, the typed racket way/syntax e.g. or coalton or... how should the syntax be? (defun name (var :type var :type) ?
<screwlisp>
This is a question I hope that Vassil answers live very soon. Oh shoot, I don't have one of kmp's haikus ready.