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<phil_bb>
dlowe: sure it's okay but it's not nearly as *fun* to figure out. Learning is a huge part of my enjoyment, and the goal isn't nearly as important to me as the brain tingling part.
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<aeth>
I like to keep things simple, personally
<aeth>
there are large corners of the language that I have never touched and I probably would've never touched the metaobject protocol at all if you could rely on :type actually type checking
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<phil_bb>
aeth: when you say simple, what do you mean?
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<aeth>
I don't like hiding too much "magic"
<aeth>
And if I did, I'd much rather make it an entire DSL or language so I can go back to composing simple things that I can step through.
<phil_bb>
Sorry, that's vague to me, not sure what you mean by magic.
<phil_bb>
Like, sure I can write a defclass 80+ times, but if I can do it in a handful of functions/ macros, and a list, why not?
<phil_bb>
That seems more simple to me than the manual labor.
<aeth>
If the situation called for 80 classes, I'd much rather try to abstract with define-foo macros (I don't like the deffoo short form, and CL even started moving away from it when the standard was under way, e.g. define-condition) than trying to come up with something inside of CLOS
<aeth>
but if the situation called for 80 classes, it starts to look like a translation from Java rather than something I'd write, I think
<aeth>
most of my define-foo macros actually just create functions (i.e. defun) that precompute a lot of things (maybe the whole computation) that are then returned by calling the function of that name (perhaps implicitly, via symbol-macrolet hiding that it's a call)
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<phil_bb>
Well just accounting for limbs and internal organs we're reaching high, and then there's a bunch of other things, like bones, ligaments, muscle groups (not yet individual muscles), features, etc.
<phil_bb>
A lot of these will inevitably need to be very specialized for their function, with cross-links to other parts, e.g. blood -> kidneys and such
<phil_bb>
So while defining the function of each part will be easy (albeit tedious), it's unavoidable. Defining the objects themselves, however, should be mostly straightforward.
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<aeth>
that to me seems like a flaw in object oriented programming... mapping (computational) objects to (simulation) objects
<phil_bb>
I don't see how else I can do this, honestly. I mean sure I could create a huge web of functions/ procedures with variables tracking each interaction but that seems like a very easy way to get lost in the weeds.
<aeth>
well, the ECS was raised as an alternative. Everything has components based on what their functions are at iteration time, and the iteration iterates on those.
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<aeth>
So something that's burnable is processed in the burn loop
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<phantomics>
phil_bb: Have you seen the game Robinson's Requiem? Sounds a bit like the survival model you're considering
<phantomics>
I've found that when doing a simulation, it's important to find a level of abstraction that works for what you're doing and not go too far beyond that point, because you can try for an immense level of detail but that mostly just bogs the system down
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<phil_bb>
Never heard of it. I'll look it up in a few.
<phil_bb>
And yes, but also this isn't a "game" game, it's more of a project to see how far I can get while learning.
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<aeth>
simulation stuff are definitely a thing
<aeth>
there are definitely people who are into simulations, with the fun being optional
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<phantomics>
Robinson's has one of the most detailed systems I've seen for modeling illness and injury and it's from the 90s, there are also some combat medic sims used for military training, might look at those
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<jackdaniel>
my grant proposal to NLNet to improve ECL in-browser support (wasm) has been accepted: https://nlnet.nl/project/ECL/ :)
<ixelp>
NLnet; Embeddable Common Lisp
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<aeth>
NLNet?
<jackdaniel>
yes, european organization that funds foss projects
<jackdaniel>
it is part of EU Horizon funding for free software by European Union
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<beach>
Excellent! Congratulations!
<jackdaniel>
thanks!
<aeth>
I'm surprised I never heard of it before
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<ingeniot>
jackdaniel: Congratulations! :-)
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<scymtym>
from a brief look i had some time ago, nlnet seems to make good funding decisions in general. and congratulations
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<jackdaniel>
thank you both
<aeth>
yes, congrats
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<Shinmera>
nice :)
<Shinmera>
wish I had similarly good news about funding, but my grant requests have been rejected :(
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<phil_bb>
jackdaniel: congratulations!
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<varjag>
jackdaniel: great news
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<didi>
Is it possible to specialize `initialize-instance' to a defined structure? It seems to be working, but I thought I could specialize `initialize-instance' only to classes.
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<didi>
And by “specialize” I mean define a method. e.g. (defmethod initialize-instance :after ((struct struct-name) ..) ...)
<beach>
I am not sure it is explicitly specified, but the dictionary entry for DEFSTRUCT shows two examples of defining a method on PRINT-OBJECT specialized to the defined structure.
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<didi>
Cool.
<didi>
I can also (make-instance 'struct-name), which I wasn't expecting.
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<beach>
That might be less portable.
<didi>
I see.
<mange>
The docs for initialize-instance only say that it's called by make-instance, so I imagine an implementation is free to not call initialize-instance when making structs.
<didi>
mange: Hum.
<beach>
mange: That sounds right. You could write a method on INITIALIZE-INSTANCE provided the struct is a class, but it might not be called :)
<beach>
You can specialize a method to any class, including a built-in class. But MAKE-INSTANCE has method specialized only to STANDARD-CLASS and SYMBOL.
<mange>
Yeah, so I don't think it's a problem to write a method for initialize-instance, it's just that the implementation is free to ignore it.
<beach>
Now, I seem to remember that an implementation is allowed to add other methods, and that's probably what they do.
<didi>
oic. So SBCL is choosing to call `initialize-method' during (make-struct), but it's not mandatory. Thank yous.
<jackdaniel>
n.b a similar deliberation applies to slot-value, it may but doesn't have to work for structures
<beach>
Oh, check out STRUCTURE-CLASS.
<beach>
"All classes defined by means of DEFSTRUCT are instances of the class STRUCTURE-CLASS"
<beach>
So it is definitely allowed to write methods specialized to structure classes.
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<didi>
Ah, that's nice.
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<beach>
jackdaniel: Is it a secret how much money you were awarded?
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<jackdaniel>
it is not, but that's not decided yet
<beach>
Oh, I see.
<jackdaniel>
there are still things to agree on; generally up to 30k euro for around 8 months of work (but paid by a milestone)
<beach>
That's significant.
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<jackdaniel>
yes, I'd be quite happy if it had ended at the maximum
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<jackdaniel>
when it will come to canvas, I plan to implement lisp api by reusing clim protocol
<jackdaniel>
that will support porting mcclim it a browser in the future
<beach>
Very nice!
<jackdaniel>
it's time for me, see you later \o
<beach>
Take care!
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<jasom>
Is it possible to rename a file from a pathname with a type to a pathname without a type (e.g. on a unix system from "foo.tmp" to "foo") with cl:rename-file? It uses merge-pathnames on the destination so I can't figure out how.
<jasom>
Derp, just set the type to :unspecific (e.g. uiop:parse-unix-namestring does this)
<acdw>
oh that works lol
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<contrapunctus>
acdw: long time no see! :o
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<jasom>
I must say that it's an odd chain of events that we get a CL running in the browser because a chemist wanted to write less C++...
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<jasom>
nevermind; i mixed up ECL and CLASP; disregard that