10:25 <joerg> https://github.com/X11Libre/xserver/wiki/Are-We-XLibre-Yet%3F

10:31 <dsc_> do I understand correctly that Debian may decide to stop packaging x11, and as a result Devuan wont have it, and then our Hildon cannot run anymore \o/ ?

10:48 <sicelo> dsc_: uh, where did you get that?

10:49 <dsc_> sicelo: its a question, I have no idea whats going on tbh

10:49 <dsc_> i am but a humble userspace developer

10:49 <sicelo> ah, thought you may have read it somewhere :-)

10:50 <dsc_> reading.. I only code >:)

10:50 <sicelo> i very much doubt Debian will be dropping X11 anytime, at least not soon

10:50 <dsc_> kk

10:55 <joerg> and Devuan will probably keep X11 no matter what Debian does

11:05 <joerg> from Telegram to IRC bridge to paste - Danielinux as one of the contributors to Devuan: https://termbin.com/toiu

11:05 <Wizzup> I might give it a try soon on my gentoo

11:18 <dsc_> im not really well versed in this whole DE stuff but on a personal note, I use Ubuntu and do some graphics programming, and previously had some issues that were painful (because I blamed my code at first), turns out it was because of either wayland or the nvidia drivers

11:18 <dsc_> so I switched to xorg, now it works fine. But Ubuntu is removing that for future versions (afaik.)

11:19 <dsc_> I went into #ubuntu, and they said I should use xwayland

11:19 <dsc_> but it sounds hacky ;p

11:21 <joerg> https://xcancel.com/DevuanOrg/status/1935307141511794726

11:21 <dsc_> s/DE stuff/display server stuff/g

11:24 <inky> i don't see x vanishing anytime soon, in decades. and i think it will never vanish.

11:24 <inky> "never"

11:28 <dsc_> also with xorg you can do hacky things with xdotool, xvfb-run, DISPLAY=, and screen recording without too many headaches

11:29 <joerg> well, several distros already dropped supporting it.

11:29 <dsc_> yes, so I'm doomed basically

11:29 <dsc_> now Wizzup is going to tell me to use Gentoo probably :)

11:30 <joerg> interesting that Suse didn't drop X11 yet

11:55 <Wizzup> dsc_: yeah this pushing wayland down everyone's throat is a bit annoying, but tbh, I'd just use debian/devuan, it's ubuntu but nicer

12:43 <sicelo> quite sure debian will not be dropping x11 anytime soon. it's too big of a distro to take in these kinds of changes on a whim. they could make wayland the default, but drop x11, i don't see how they'd do it

12:47 <sicelo> of course with gnome and kde planning to drop x11 support, it won't be a surprise that some years in the future, more and more distros will completely drop x11, debian included

12:47 <inky> i know freebsd is possible to use with wayland, but it is still not mainstream. and all other unices are on x. so x will stay.

12:48 <inky> if xorg devs are slowing down its development artificially because they have redhat emails and have to do so because of political reasons, like with mysql/maria, fork should happen, and it happened.

12:48 <inky> let's hope.

12:48 <inky> this fork won't get massive corporate support like mariadb got, of course.

12:49 <inky> but there are communities that are interested.

12:50 <inky> i never tried wayland but i have no complaints with x. i will not give up my windowmaker anytime soon. perhaps never.

14:39 <bencoh> inky: or mayble you'll switch to wlmaker :]

14:40 <Wizzup> inky: yeah it's a shame the reasons don't seem to really be technical, I'm interesting in the x11 namespaces/containers that x11libre is adding

16:33 <joerg> I found this a convenient summary: https://linuxiac.com/the-curious-case-of-xlibre-xserver/

18:39 <sicelo> heh, I think the idea of replacing X11 proper with xlibre was premature, even for people who don't like Wayland. I'd guess safer path is ... package xlibre as an option, get feedback over a reasonable period of time, then make your decision.

18:39 <sicelo> politics or not ...

18:42 <joerg> I would not call it "replace"

18:46 <joerg> supposedly same codebase, just last ca 4 years' commits applied on top

19:53 <Wizzup> sicelo: yeah I think having both around makes sense

20:03 <Wizzup> freemangordon: I will probably try to submit my XRecord fixes for x11libre

20:03 <Wizzup> They were ignored by upstreams for 2-3 years

20:04 <Wizzup> 5 years ago actually ;)

20:06 <freemangordon> ok

20:06 <freemangordon> maybe someone will finally fix modesetting rotation :)

20:09 <Wizzup> they are doing a bunch of glamor stuff

20:13 <sicelo> Wizzup: you may also be able to ping upstream, and be lucky it gets merged there too

20:14 <Wizzup> I tried that

20:14 <Wizzup> I'm kind of done with xorg upstream to be honest

20:14 <Wizzup> If they suddenly start doing things now it's clearly only because of the x11libre fork

20:14 <Wizzup> which might still be good, but yeah