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<heat>
LTTTTTTTTOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
<heat>
i'm not a fan :(
<nikolar>
I'm not a fan of being forced to use lto
<heat>
sir, a second google C++ project has hit the towers
<heat>
google even compiles fuckin linux with LTO
<the_oz>
C++ KIT STEEL PLAYING MUST
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<clever>
heat: how would linux LTO impact things like .init.text stripping and module linking??
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<heat>
i don't think it would impact much
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<heat>
module linking relies on EXPORT_SYMBOL, and the compiler will keep those referenced symbols
<heat>
in fact, android even provides a stable kABI soo
<heat>
as for .init.text you'll just get a bunch more to free, probably
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<clever>
what about LTO within a module?
<heat>
no idea how that works
<clever>
how much could it inline into a module, vs keep as an external reference
<heat>
oh that would never work
<heat>
you don't link the .ko against vmlinux
<clever>
exactly
<heat>
directly with ld
<clever>
so the .ko will still have performance costs calling out to vmlinux functions
<heat>
so in theory you can do LTO internally inside the .ko
<clever>
and LTO cant fix that
<heat>
i don't know if kbuild does
<heat>
sure
<clever>
at that point, =y would have bigger performance gains
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<clever>
since it can LTO that driver more
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<pog>
does it also try to optimize the layout of code for locality
<pog>
not that i think there's much to gain there either
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<heat>
i'm not sure
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<heat>
PGO should, and google is also PGO-pilled
<zid`>
I never use modules so I am immune to the fact that elf boundaries mean you can't perform interprocedural optimizations
<zid`>
get rekt
<heat>
well i have to maintain kABI for all exported kernel symbols ever
<heat>
so i'm also not a big module guy
<pog>
i'm a big module guy
<zid`>
big-modules guy or big modules-guy?
<heat>
Guy de Module
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<pog>
yes
<zid`>
I'm a sick ass beats guy
<zid`>
(I'm a sicko who beats men)
<heat>
pog: the suse kernels build around 600MB of uncompressed modules
<heat>
enjoy
<zid`>
Have they considered not doing that
<heat>
sadly, people have hardware
<zid`>
bastards
<zid`>
Just all use the same things
<heat>
if it's not in QEMU i don't want it
<pog>
yikes no thanks
<zid`>
nobody needs lego mindstorms on their drive, they should have to get a special external driver package that's updated once every decade
<pog>
arch only has 236MB
<heat>
compressed or uncompressed?
<pog>
zst compressed
<heat>
note: kernel modules are normally always compressed when packaging
<heat>
yeah ok
<heat>
it probably looks similar to SUSE uncompressed
<heat>
since modules are usually small, it probably can't compress super well
<nikolar>
Object code is generally not that compressible
<zid`>
It's okay
<zid`>
better than you think, not as good as you'd want
<zid`>
depends how shit your ISA is
<pog>
x86 is pretty compact
<zid`>
it's good yea but not the best, lots of floating +0x0000020
<zid`>
which end up being low entropy
* kof673
points at upx
* kof673
stops pointing
<zid`>
a 16bit offset mode'd be good for compactness, rather than the 32
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<nikolar>
pog: yeah x86 is pretty compact
<nikolar>
riscv for example, shuffles related the bits within the instruction and it's basically incompressible
<nikolar>
Like there's no byte level redundancy basically
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<geist>
there was a tech we had at Be where we compressed x86 instruction streams by breaking them into opcode and data and lots of common expressions
<geist>
and then compressing them separately
<geist>
clearly x86 centric, but it worked great, since a lot of the compression comes from lots of zeros or repeated constants
<kof673>
where was that used? for packages/installer i mean?
<geist>
BeIA
<heat>
BeAI
<geist>
it was actaully an extension of the ELF spec we called CELF
<geist>
the loader itself decompressed the pages on the fly
<geist>
flash storage was at a massive premium so i remember we had something like 10:1 total compression (100MB or so image that fit into 16MB)
<pog>
tech-utopia.jpg "the world if BeOS became the dominant platform"
<geist>
we even had a compressed file system called CFS that allocated blocks on 8 byte boundaries, used skip lists to track free space (was slow as heck but very very efficient)
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<kof673>
apple was supposedly going to buy be..but went with next.
<pog>
that's my hottest tech take really, that BeOS was the future and it was stolen from us
<heat>
with beos we wouldn't have linux
<heat>
im a big linux operating system kernel linux oeprating system fan
<nikolar>
You're contractually obligated to say that
<heat>
im not
<heat>
i do it for the love of the game
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<pog>
again i repet
<pog>
the future was stolen from us
<kof673>
they sued ms or ibm or whoever was ...making it difficult for people not bundling windows with new machines or similar..and i believe won...but too late, settled quietly. don't trust me, just remember seeing a case.....
<kof673>
jobs thought the desktop wars were over anyways...
<kof673>
i mean, what was be's strategy for the web or whatever?
<kof673>
or phones/tablets/whatever non-desktop stuff......
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<pog>
third party browser as it always should have been
<pog>
DOJ didn't slap microsoft hard enough
<kof673>
i'm not saying they wouldn't have survived or prospered even..just that is my mind where i remember beos personal edition, windows 95/98/me era just before xp about
<kof673>
*in my mind is where
<kof673>
and most people still on dial-up perhaps too
<pog>
i'm not entirely serious about my claim
<kof673>
:D pre-ipod and ..........not sure about "smart" cell phones, but not as widespread at least yet
<heat>
pog: buy a SLED license
<pog>
i am entirely serious that i would have preferred a world where we didn't get the tech duopolies
<heat>
i am entirely serious about this claim
<pog>
what's SLED
<kof673>
suse enterprise :D
<heat>
yes
<heat>
suse linux enterprise desktop
<heat>
for STABLE desktops
<pog>
ew rpm distro
<pog>
heat
<heat>
what's wrong with rpm :(
<pog>
i bought suse 8.1 in 2002-ish
<pog>
i ran it for a couple years actually
<pog>
it had a big fat book on how to linux
<heat>
great choice
<pog>
heat buy a LIGMA license
<heat>
where
<pog>
Linux Isn't Gnu My Balls
<heat>
you didn't tell me where i could buy a LIGMA license