f_ changed the topic of #wayback to: Wayback - a wayland-based X11 environment | https://wayback.freedesktop.org/ | src: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayback/wayback | logs: https://libera.catirclogs.org/wayback | matrix bridge: #wayback:catircservices.org
arraybolt3_ has joined #wayback
arraybolt3 has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
grufwub has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
grufwub has joined #wayback
f_|ic has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
<Saijin_Naib[m]1> This is going to sound dumb, but how do I copy from the console outside of a DE session 🤣
<Saijin_Naib[m]1> Pipe to a file at launch?
jvvv has quit [Quit: WeeChat 4.6.3]
jvvv has joined #wayback
<jvvv> Saijin_Naib[m]1: i use 'seatd-launch wayback-session <my_session_cmd> > wayback.log 2>&1'
ToyKeeper has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds]
ToyKeeper has joined #wayback
navi has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
navi has joined #wayback
leah has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
leah has joined #wayback
ToyKeeper has quit [Changing host]
ToyKeeper has joined #wayback
tomate has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
tomate has joined #wayback
f_|ic has joined #wayback
<f_> hi from icewm
<f_> I think I'll use it for my wayback testing from now on
nemoto has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
<f_> Anyway the reason why I installed IceWM is to confirm issue #49 is a thing
<f_> and it is
<f_> and I'm not sure we can do much about it
<f_> because wouldn't you know it, but it also happens on regular Xephyr
<f_> Also I noticed we don't unset WAYLAND_DISPLAY before running a session: https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayback/wayback/-/merge_requests/62
vyivel has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds]
<dok> f_: i added a stack trace for the xwayback-compositor segfault (#48)
<f_> awesome, ty
zdykstra has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]
zdykstra has joined #wayback
__0x1eaf has joined #wayback
<dramforever[m]1> so i have a cursed monitor that disconnects itself for a few seconds every time it reinitializes
<f_> what is it?
<f_> that's pretty strange
<f_> dok: you're awesome, thanks, I was able to figure out what the issue is
<dramforever[m]1> samsung lu28r550uqcxxf
<f_> it would seem that they are actually undefined and wl_list_remove is called on them
<f_> and it obviously fails
<dramforever[m]1> and this is a problem... just in general but specifically for wayback i think wayback really doesn't like that? depending on what exactly i'm doing i get either the display going back to the builtin screen or it just exiting
<f_> The reason why it only happens on ctrl-alt-backspace is because the other methods of closing don't seem to actually cleanup things
<dok> f_ thank you for figuring this out
<dramforever[m]1> exiting might just be kwin getting confused
<f_> dok: thank you for helping out :) it was a team effort
<f_> dramforever[m]1: I test on WindowMaker and IceWM
<dramforever[m]1> i don't get that if i only have xterm
Consolatis[m]1 has joined #wayback
<Consolatis[m]1> f_: re wl_list_remove(): yeah, that looks pretty much broken. As they apparently aren't used they can just be removed. In situations where a listener might be needed depending on some condition one can call wl_list_init(&listener.link) on init, that allows safe removal
<f_> Consolatis[m]1: yes, I'm removing them rn
<f_> With this diff I now get a different thing printed, some assert fail
<f_> Assertion failed: wl_list_empty(&xdg_shell->events.new_toplevel.listener_list) (types/xdg_shell/wlr_xdg_shell.c: handle_display_destroy: 134)
<f_> but I believe that's an unrelated issue that just popped in because it no longer segfaults this early
<Consolatis[m]1> that is expected from wlroots 0.19.x. It now checks for empty signal listener lists on destroy
<f_> Ah.
<Consolatis[m]1> so its missing some wl_list_remove() of an installed listener and is unrelated
<f_> Yeah
<f_> tbh better than it segfaulting earlier :p
<dramforever[m]1> the display moving back to the builtin screen still happens with only xterm though
<f_> dramforever[m]1: ..yeah not sure that's going to be fixed..
<f_> your monitor is acting up, and this is a stop-gap workaround anyway
<f_> the better solution is to plumb xinerama properly so wayback actually gets multimonitor support
<dramforever[m]1> yeah hopefully getting actual multi display support would fix it
<f_> and btw, this is the reason why I don't daily drive wayback right now with my two displays
<Consolatis[m]1> JFYI, monitors being removed and "reconnect" can be tested by switching VTs with wlroots 0.19.x
<f_> the new envvar WAYBACK_DISPLAY also won't work at all for my setup
<f_> at least with it I can't run wayback on my main monitor
<f_> because thanks to my GPU my laptop can only handle 2 displays at a time and I also have a VGA monitor plugged in, and when the laptop display is turned on VGA takes precedence over DisplayPort so my main display is also the display that's off when it can't drive any more displays
<f_> and I think wayback doesn't (yet) turn off unused displays, so yeah ...
<dramforever[m]1> this weird monitor behavior can also be observed on normal kde
<dramforever[m]1> where when i wake my laptop from idle the monitor disconnects, and now it thinks since the lid is closed and the monitor is disconnected it's time to sleep...
<Consolatis[m]1> some monitors do act weird. labwc had reports about monitors disconnecting on modeset, disconnecting on DPMS resume, all kind of weird stuff
<f_> dramforever[m]1: I think I had these kinds of problems ages ago, that's why I completely disable suspend on closing lid :p
vyivel has joined #wayback
<f_> Consolatis[m]1: all sorts of fun I guess.
vyivel has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
vyivel has joined #wayback
vyivel has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
vyivel has joined #wayback
<f_> thankfully my monitors don't seem to do that I think, at least not usually
<Consolatis[m]1> technically the best approach is likely for a compositor to keep the outputs around and try to re-match them on connect (by connector + name + description + make + model + serial) and then apply the stored settings from their last appearance. for example their positions in the output layout
<f_> Consolatis[m]1. I wouldn't worry too much about it
<f_> like I said WAYBACK_DISPLAY is just a workaround for now
<dramforever[m]1> technically the best approach is to actually handle multiple monitors yes
<dramforever[m]1> we don't have that yet this is a known thing
<f_> yep dramforever[m]1. ^^
<Consolatis[m]1> its unrelated to the WAYBACK_DISPLAY, this topic will come up again even if supporting multiple outputs
<dramforever[m]1> yes it will
<dramforever[m]1> we deal with it then
<dramforever[m]1> we can't do much about it now because we just barely know about monitors
<f_> Consolatis[m]1: yeah I think so too but I mean I wouldn't worry about that *now*
<Consolatis[m]1> understandable :)
<f_> Consolatis[m]1: if you want you can mention this in https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayback/wayback/-/issues/8 so it's not lost in irc logs
<f_> dok: !63 merged thanks to ConanKudo[m]1. So your issue should be fixed now
<f_> ConanKudo[m]1: oh, oops, I referenced the wrong issue in Fixes
<ConanKudo[m]1> good thing you didn't put it in the commit
<f_> yeah lol
<ConanKudo[m]1> you can reopen it and close the other one
<f_> I cannot, I only have Guest permissions
<axtlos> o/ back from my exam break
<dok> f_: thanks i'll try the new version
<f_> welcome back axtlos \o
<axtlos> been getting a lot of emails from wayback lmao
<f_> lol sorry :p
<axtlos> no need to apologize, its good to see it progress so fast
<dok> works better now :)
<dok> but you didn't closed the correct issue
<dok> it's #48 not #49
<dok> i am still havign an issue when using wayback-session with .xinitrc
<dok> also switching back and forth the virtual-terminal terminates Xwayback
<dok> or it's wayland-compositor that terminates
<dok> 00:00:02.197 [INFO] [wayland] error in client communication (pid 766)
<dok> XWAYLAND: wp_viewport#17: error 0: wl_viewport.set_destination sent with invalid values
<f_> huh
<f_> btw. Regarding https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayback/wayback/-/issues/45 is there anything I can do to move this forward?
<f_> I can do it myself if you want
<f_> (you = Conan_Kudo / Ariadne)
<f_> any thoughts on this are welcome aswell
<ConanKudo[m]1> replace de with env and I think we're good
<ConanKudo[m]1> I don't want a plasma-x11 label but instead have an "other" label
<axtlos> I think wontfix isnt needed since all cases of a wontfix are covered by the status labels
<f_> axtlos: ok
<f_> ConanKudo[m]1: ..yeah `env` sounds better than `de` I agree
<f_> done
<f_> I could also help out to label issues
<ConanKudo[m]1> sure
__0x1eaf has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
__0x1eaf has joined #wayback
<f_|ic> I'm really liking icewm tbh.
<axtlos> icewm is great
<axtlos> its my goto 'old' WM
<f_|ic> I have the old redhat theme set
<f_|ic> wonderful
<axtlos> wmaker is beautiful but its gnustep relation makes it a bit difficult to get properly going quickly
<axtlos> my last time using icewm was on my laintop, had it on freebsd with a bsd theme
__0x1eaf has quit [Client Quit]
<f_> how did it look like?
__0x1eaf has joined #wayback
<axtlos> f_: It was a kinda win9x esque theme, except for the toolbar which was more like windowmaker
<axtlos> window bar*
<f_> I think I found the WM/DE I'll try to daily drive
<axtlos> which one is it?
<f_> icewm of course ^^
<axtlos> oh awesome
<arraybolt3_> I still use IceWM in production on a VM I use for building software.
<arraybolt3_> generally with... gah, can't remember the name of the theme now
<arraybolt3_> it was like "icedesert" or something, it's one of the ones that just come with IceWM I believe (at least the IceWM in Arch and Debian)
f_|ic has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity]
arraybolt3_ has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!]
arraybolt3 has joined #wayback
<f_> arraybolt3: oh yes I know about it
<f_> A
<f_> oops
<arraybolt3> B
<f_> congratulations students. Tomorrow we'll learn what C and D are!
<f_> :P
<axtlos> navi: could you maybe check this MR https://gitlab.freedesktop.org/wayback/wayback/-/merge_requests/64
<axtlos> To me it looks fine, but you'll probably know a bit more
<f_|cat> I'm not navi but I can have a look too
<f_> lgtm
<f_> the formatting style thing is strange though.
<axtlos> nice
<axtlos> any specific reason you're using postmarketos on a regular laptop?
<f_> makes it easier to develop for postmarketOS
<axtlos> oh yeah makes sense
<f_> and also kinda dogfooding :p
<f_> though overall apart from the merged-usr my install is not much different from alpine
<axtlos> is merged usr something postmarket does or did you manually set that up?
<f_> I did it manually
<axtlos> oh i see
<f_> there's a script in alpine that does it. Eventually pmOS and alpine will get merged-usr by default
<axtlos> i assume pmOS will switch to it with the systemd migration?
<f_> I did it to confirm that the script works :P
<axtlos> iirc systemd needs merged-usr since last year
<f_> pmOS is not migrating to systemd
<axtlos> oh? i thought i read something about that
<f_> It will be supported alongside openrc
<axtlos> ohh
<f_> unless the plan changed :p
Achill[m] has joined #wayback
<Achill[m]> currently we patch our systemd to work with non-usr-merged systemd and thats what we ship in our latest release, but eventually we want to drop it and usr-merge all systemd installations
<f_> Achill[m]: why not usr-merge everything? :p
<f_> instead of just systemd installs
<Achill[m]> thats the plan
<axtlos> yeah no i just checked the blog post i read and it does mention being able to chose
<axtlos> thtas nice though
<f_> yep
<arraybolt3> fwiw I saw Adelie Linux is apparently getting systemd to build against musl libc and apparently got split-/usr back?
<Achill[m]> the best part is doing it upstream in alpine, so we actually bring alpine forward and work on the right pieces
<f_> arraybolt3: yep indeed
<f_> pmOS/systemd is running on musl and with split-usr at the moment
<arraybolt3> I do wonder, why is split-/usr desirable...
<f_> legacy
<arraybolt3> why is legacy desirable :P
<f_> idk
<Achill[m]> i think nowadays its just there for historical reason (at least thats the case for alpine).
__0x1eaf has quit [Quit: Lost terminal]
<f_> Anyways
<f_> I wonder if we should remove the '-d :display' flag from Xwayback?
<navi> looking at the MR now axtlos
<axtlos> thanks
<navi> the `static` is good (we don't want to export any symbols after all), but at the same time
<axtlos> f_: I have a local branch that removes the -display argument and moves to a more Xserver like argument parsing
<navi> it's both not a "cosmetic change", while being as meaningful as one (since exported symbols in an exectuable is kind of inconsequent)
<axtlos> navi: the MR title will probably have to be adjusted to be more accurate
<f_> axtlos: sounds good
<f_> I was going to do it but yeah :p
<navi> i honestly don't care about the MR title
<navi> the commit says what it is
<axtlos> oh I thought commit and MR was the same
<axtlos> then it's fine
<f_> Ok so after a few hours of using wayback:
<f_> works pretty well but I notice the cursor sometimes disappears and takes time to reappear
<axtlos> f_: yeah I was hoping I'd get it ready today but I still got two exams lined up this week so I had to focus on that
<f_> also normally in XScreenSaver the cursor is 'trapped' in the xscreensaver login window but here it is not
<f_> axtlos: go focus on that, it can wait
<f_> ^^
<axtlos> the worst classes are over so I have more time now :p
<axtlos> though the cursor trapped thing is known already, someone opened an issue about that about unity failing to lock it
<f_> wait someone tried unity in wayback?
<f_> cool, used to be a unity user back in the day :p
<f_> ok good it's already reported
<f_> that's not really a dealbreaker for me, I don't really game on this laptop
<Ariadne> arraybolt3: alpine tries to be "evergreen", which means we have to be careful about anything which may break user experience
<navi> fwiw there are current (embedded) users of adelie, and probably alpine too, that mount /usr during boot, and literally don't have enough ram for a initramfs
<navi> which is why openrc also supports both and will continue to do so
<navi> (we default to merged-usr just for /usr/libexec, but that can be changed by just `meson setup build -Dlibexec=/lib`)
<f_> How much ram?
<navi> i dunno
<navi> i was just told that initramfs are no go due to not enough ram
<navi> by an adelie dev
<f_> pmOS runs on devices with as little as 256MB of RAM
<f_> and it has an initramfs
<navi> but what is in the initramfs?
<navi> hmm, not a lot
<f_> yeah there's not too much
<f_> and for space-constrained /boot it's split into two
<f_> anyway afk
<axtlos> I know from experience with embedded devices that even when there is enough ram that the initramfs is often skipped since it adds unnecessary complexity to the system
<axtlos> in most cases an initramfs is required to provide specific kernel modules to be able to get to the real root, for embedded devices that's unnecessary since the kernel is specifically built for the hardware, so it's easier to just have the needed stuff in the kernel build
grufwub has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
grufwub has joined #wayback
<navi> adding a initramfs to your image build process just to mount /usr seems like a lot