teepee changed the topic of #openscad to: OpenSCAD - The Programmers Solid 3D CAD Modeller | This channel is logged! | Website: http://www.openscad.org/ | FAQ: https://goo.gl/pcT7y3 | Request features / report bugs: https://goo.gl/lj0JRI | Tutorial: https://bit.ly/37P6z0B | Books: https://bit.ly/3xlLcQq | FOSDEM 2020: https://bit.ly/35xZGy6 | Logs: https://bit.ly/32MfbH5
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<gbruno> [github] jordanbrown0 opened pull request #5898 (Update copyright to 2025.) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/pull/5898
<JordanBrown> Just built the current sources. When I start the program and click "New", it seems to do a preview of the empty file.
<JordanBrown> And no, Design/Automatic Reload and Preview is not set.
<JordanBrown> That's "New" in the launcher window.
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<JordanBrown> But if the Welcome Screen (launcher window) is disabled, it doesn't.
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<JordanBrown> Even more strangely, sometimes it does and sometimes it doesn't.
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<sparsh-n> Hi all, this is a bit late, but looks like the Windows Build/CI project is in for GSoC! I look forward to working on OpenSCAD this summer! As for the quaternion rotation uses I mentioned earlier this month, I think the primary benefit was that it avoid gimbal locking, and are more compact in terms of representation.
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<InPhase> JordanBrown: I'm having trouble replicating that one. But the related longstanding minor nuissance I've observed is that whenever I open an existing file, it will preview on the first character entered in the editor window. Which unless that is a whitespace character, always means a syntax error.
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<InPhase> JordanBrown: I don't use the editor regularly, so I don't actually get clobbered by this very often. But it's definitely a buggy behavior.
<InPhase> On a slow previewing model, this would surely be annoying to anyone getting hit by it repeatedly because they use the editor.
<InPhase> Simply pressing the space bar could result in a long delay.
<InPhase> Ironically any other non-whitespace character would not be a long delay, because that would cause a syntax error and terminate quickly... But users should not have to do a weird dance. lol
<InPhase> Not sure if that one ever got marked as an issue. I think it's been around for a while though, because I just tested and see the same behavior in the last release.
<JordanBrown> That behavior appears associated with Design/Automatic Reload and Preview.
<JordanBrown> Can you confirm that you only see it when that's set?
<InPhase> Yes, it seems definitely associated with that.
<InPhase> Perhaps it has gone unreported since most people with that set are not using the editor regularly anyway.
<InPhase> But it becomes wonky if someone switches over then.
<JordanBrown> From the outside, it looks to me like it's triggering a preview any time the buffer changes and the file was previously saved or opened.
<InPhase> Yeah, seems to be the case.
<JordanBrown> That is, it does *not* trigger if you have a new never-saved file.
<InPhase> Right.
<InPhase> Perhaps on the first buffer change it is switching files to the temporary one, triggering a new reload and preview?
<InPhase> (Which would need suppressed somehow.)
<JordanBrown> By "the temporary one" you mean the backup file?
<InPhase> Yes.
<InPhase> I thought that was switched at the trigger of preview, but maybe it's done at the first buffer edit.
<InPhase> s/switched/copied/
<JordanBrown> If I have a new (never saved, never opened) file then it does not trigger this behavior even when you've previewed it and so saved to a backup file.
<JordanBrown> Here's an interesting and probably unrelated tidbit: the temporary file name can get components from other files that you have open.
<JordanBrown> I have "egg.scad" open in one tab, and in another new tab I get a backup file name of
<JordanBrown> C:/Users/Jordan/OneDrive/Documents/OpenSCAD/backups/egg-backup-xhTcCRHq.scad
<JordanBrown> note the "egg" towards the end.
<JordanBrown> In fact, I get that even for files that *are* saved.
<JordanBrown> And it's the same name for all of my tabs, which seems tacky.
<InPhase> Hmm. I press space on a recently opened file, and it only creates an entry in backups IF Automatic Design and Preview is set. If it's disabled, it does NOT create a new file in backups at pressing space.
<InPhase> So this does not trigger the preview, but is a consequence of it.
<JordanBrown> yes
<JordanBrown> yes
<JordanBrown> I did say "probably unrelated".
<InPhase> Well, that was my only operating theory. :)
<gbruno> [github] kintel pushed 1 modifications (Update copyright to 2025. (#5898)) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/commit/83cb944e7543c9e72fa432d04311aceebcade0e4
<gbruno> [github] kintel closed pull request #5898 (Update copyright to 2025.) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/pull/5898
<JordanBrown> Well, OK, I have an interesting tidbit. It does *not* preview on keystrokes.
<JordanBrown> (What?!? I hear you say.)
<JordanBrown> It previews all the time, more or less continuously.
<JordanBrown> Looks like it's probably every 200ms.
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<JordanBrown> OK, not quite. It *thinks* about previewing all the time. One might think that when it calls compile(), it would compile, but no, that only means that it's considering compiling.
<JordanBrown> The problem is around here
<JordanBrown> where it says
<JordanBrown> // If the file hasn't changed, we might still need to compile it
<JordanBrown> // if we haven't yet compiled the current text.
<JordanBrown> So it attempts to automatically preview on any change to the buffer.
<JordanBrown> But it gets that wrong, because it checks by comparing the size of the text.
<JordanBrown> If you make a change that doesn't change the size of the text - e.g. select one character, and then type another to replace it - then it does *not* preview.
<JordanBrown> Preview on every internal-editor change seems like a bad idea.
<JordanBrown> (Though I have to admit that it's kind of cool when I've got an animation running and it does that sort of automatically.)
<JordanBrown> PR#5773 changed this behavior.
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<InPhase> JordanBrown: Interesting.
<InPhase> Good sleuthing.
<gbruno> [github] qorron opened issue #5899 (The release key on OpenSUSE build service causes "Policy will reject signature within a year") https://github.com/openscad/openscad/issues/5899
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<gbruno> [github] Nexusnui opened issue #5900 (Automatic Reload and Preview happens ervertime I type something) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/issues/5900
<gbruno> [github] Nexusnui edited issue #5900 (Automatic Reload and Preview happens ervertime I type something) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/issues/5900
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<gbruno> [github] kintel closed issue #5900 (Automatic Reload and Preview happens ervertime I type something) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/issues/5900
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<J25k32> only open with login - Ü
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<kintel> J25k32 Oh no. Don't tell me GitHub is making this a permanent change. That's actually one of the things which would make me switch
<kintel> If that's the case, I'm sure competitors will be lining up with conversion offers :)
<J25k32> kintel i don't have more info
<J25k32> but microsoft is soooo bad
<kintel> Perhaps it's a good thing - GitHub is becoming a bit too dominant
<J25k32> if they need to do this because of scraper bots AI other will face similar issues
<J25k32> but guess it is more like instagram so u can't really use it without login anymore
<kintel> Following that logic, everything on the web will need logins to avoid bots scraping it to collect info : /
<J25k32> yeah and having a login for a bot is also not that problem but sure can be tracked more easy
<kintel> I guess we'll soon have to pay for the freedom to distribute out code freely
<J25k32> and should be easy to just block if the same accesses 1000 repositories
<J25k32> i think as each browser has a fingerprint there are for sure nicer solutions possible
<kintel> yeah, I'd think rate limiting should only kick in if scraping a large amount of data, not for anything humans are able to do
<J25k32> maybe having something like wikipedia for code
<InPhase> kintel: It sounds like it only applies to "raw file" requests, and that they've already adjusted the rate limit upward to 20 in a few minutes.
<InPhase> kintel: Some defined rate limit for unauthenticated downloads is fair and reasonable, as long as that rate limit is not impeding normal human access, and does not impede normal scripting workflows.
<kintel> InPhase Yeah, let's see where it lands before jumping to conclusions :) I still see this as an early signal of how dependence on GitHub might be a risk
<InPhase> kintel: Always has been. :)
<InPhase> kintel: But at least they're listening and reacting.
<teepee> ah, yes, I got that rate limit error yesterday too on iPad
<kintel> I wonder if auto-mirroring is better these days. At some point I wanted to sync to GitLab, but mirroring was too messy to set up
<J25k32> i mean you can't install windows without login anymore
<InPhase> I try not to be first in line to defend anything that is technically owned by Microsoft. But it might just be a case here of a poorly chosen threshold.
<InPhase> I think the secret to addressing bot scrapers is to set a larger threshold for a longer time period.
<teepee> oh, we certainly can install our own git thingy, but I'd wait a bit for that :)
<J25k32> kintel: file mirror should work but the workflow solutions are probably not 100% compatible
<kintel> Could just be a classic "move fast and break things" engineering error. I'm not familiar with eng culture at GitHub to comment on that ;)
<teepee> yep, for now I assume it's just some new knob they turned down too much
<kintel> J25k32 Even file mirror wasn't doable back then, unless manually actuated
<InPhase> Migrating the issues would be the challenge.
<teepee> not really
<InPhase> Especially without the matching accounts.
<teepee> true, the users would be lost, but I do backup most stuff monthly
<J25k32> kintel so you have always to push into multiple gits
<kintel> Just mirroring repo, tags, branches, history and assets would be great. Mirroring workflow is hard.
<teepee> the "migration" backup has everything including the issues
<teepee> hmm, I need to check if the wiki is included, but that's a git repo anyway that can be cloned
<InPhase> teepee: For all the repos under openscad?
<kintel> Export is easy, but mirror on every action is hard - e.g. how to keep a GitLab version in sync with GitHub
<teepee> not all, but maybe I should actually do all
<kintel> I was initially looking into that to be able to e.g. run certain CI runners on GitLab
<teepee> -d '{"repositories":["docker-openscad","documentation","emacs-scad-mode","gsod-workflow-openscad","image-generator","openscad","openscad-ansible","openscad-ci","openscad-documentation","openscad-lists","openscad-playground","openscad-security-advisory","openscad.github.com","openscad-wasm"]}'
<InPhase> teepee: If it's not a burden, maybe slip Manifold in there as well. In a real github crisis, we can't lose that dependency. :)
<J25k32> .oO( this is like influencer post their shit into 10+ plattforms)
<teepee> I don't think I can run migrations on other peoples repos
<InPhase> Oh, that needs special access?
<InPhase> Then nevermind. At least we have the source code
<teepee> I believe so, I'm using access token as that runs via the API
<J25k32> would it make sense to have a fork of manifold in openscad?
<teepee> if it's not updated, the fork is not worth that much
<InPhase> J25k32: Well every single one of us which compiles has a forked copy.
<teepee> I have also an automatic backup of repo I star on github, gitlab, codeberg...
<kintel> We do have a fork, but only update it if we need to diverge from upstream. Doesn't happen too often..
<teepee> like git mirror
<teepee> 34GB, oops, 563 repos? that find command might be a bit wrong :)
<J25k32> ALL!
<InPhase> Clearly teepee's backup script is the reason github has started throttling. lol
<J25k32> just want to say that
<teepee> hardly, I run that like every 2 month if I remember doing it
<J25k32> probably so nobody can create a copy of their db
<teepee> also git mirror is very much saving data
<teepee> ahem, open source licensed stuff, they happily scrape for their own AI
<J25k32> THEIR AI ..  learning data is the new money so you need to make sure to keep the advantage ..
<J25k32> guess copilot is not so loved as they hoped
<InPhase> The real loser in all of this is going to be everybody who ever wants to use archive.org in the future.
<J25k32> with images (memes) it now started that AI is used to create copies so the content monitoring software is outmaneuvered.
<kintel> InPhase Yeah, walled gardens all burn down when their gardener dies (or some exec decides it's not cool any more, ref. https://www.reddit.com/r/Music/comments/1dnrw59/mtv_news_website_goes_dark_archives_pulled_offline/)
<J25k32> and as the newer LLM hallucinate more - you get kind of superpropaganda as you now have 100 variations of "truth"
<kintel> That wasn't even a walled garden I think, but some exec was unhappy about keeping the power on I guess
<J25k32> it is quite scary if you have a lot of tabs open .. and notice that some content just don't exist anymore when you refresh
<kintel> ^ which is where Microsoft Copilot comes in and scrapes every user's content for future archiving and AI training
<kintel> ^ which is where Microsoft Copilot comes in and scrapes every user's screen content for future archiving and AI training
<J25k32> I was shocked when i realized how fast a government can remove data but climate date is now uploaded again to USDA
<J25k32> kintel .. guess the new meta glasses are just some data funnel for AI
<teepee> yeah, destroying stuff is always much easier
<J25k32> https://www.meta.com/de/en/ai-glasses/    probably using all data (audio video) .. at least it can tell you where you misplaced anything
* J25k32 is now scared and continues to watch babylon 5
<kintel> ^ Wait until TVs get pupil tracking and use it to sell you whatever you glance at.
<kintel> Lots of potential thought crimes when watching TV too ;)
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<teepee> I wonder why they don't just disable all control when playing commercials
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<InPhase> teepee: If they did that, I'd install a remote control for the power outlet.
<InPhase> "Dodge this."
<teepee> :)
<gbruno> [github] damienmarchal opened pull request #5901 (Restore the reloading preview policy, see issue #5795) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/pull/5901
<gbruno> [github] damienmarchal edited pull request #5901 (Restore the reloading preview policy, see issue #5795) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/pull/5901
<gbruno> [github] damienmarchal synchronize pull request #5809 (Makes TabManager::editor and MainWindow::activeEditor object's methods to decrease code coupling and transparency ) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/pull/5809
<J25k32> InPhase:  Our new TV with batterie for 5 pre buffered commercials.
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<gbruno> [github] kintel closed pull request #5844 (Integration test for GUI/UX) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/pull/5844
<gbruno> [github] kintel pushed 13 additions 10 modifications (Integration test for GUI/UX (#5844)) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/commit/6146ea9fd29cb5f73a86ad8446cf1f177c84e360
<gbruno> [github] kintel pushed 1 modifications (Update title bar when a file is opened (#5895)) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/commit/70f2c6ce175fb247c11accb827c2f7549326565b
<gbruno> [github] kintel closed pull request #5895 (Update title bar when a file is opened) https://github.com/openscad/openscad/pull/5895
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