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<n00by_>
learning the dark arts of low level programming is hard, involves a fuck-ton of RTFMing T_T
<n00by_>
do you guys have any advice other than more RTFMing lol
<gog>
writing things
<gog>
understanding solutions others have come up with
<n00by_>
thanx gog, i think i
<n00by_>
i'm starting to locate my feet
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<sortie>
n00by, it's a nice part of osdev :) You know you wanna approach a topic, and then you do a bunch of research, and then get to work while consulting authoritative information
<sortie>
It's overwhelming at first because there's so much to know, but after getting started, you can focus on a few topics at a time
<n00by>
thanks, i like you sortie :3
<sortie>
Tutorials will only get you started, a huge amount of rtfm after that, and thinking independently :)
<n00by>
last part seems very important, ye
<sortie>
Like, I'm personally very very deep in the FAT filesystem at the moment. It's a bad filesystem and do not implement it as your first filesystem (do ext2 instead), but I did need to do FAT for EFI interoperability
<sortie>
It's the most important part, n00by -- independent thought. Because if you are making an OS, you gotta think about what _you_ want to build
<sortie>
I often research a bunch of existing technology when building something, and then either adopt their designs, or build my own if I think I can do better (or if I want to)
<sortie>
But like gog said, you need to understand how it all fits together. See the vision for what you're building and how it fits with other topics, perhaps topics you don't know in depth yet
<sortie>
When starting out, you're very likely to fail. But the smart move is find out why you failed, find out what topic you need to learn, then learn it, and come back later and try again
<sortie>
You can learn a lot from failing to osdev :)
<n00by>
appreciate your advice, i'll definitely ask if i have any specific questions and good luck with implementing FAT!
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<kof673>
yes, most stuff is compartmentalized. this is perhaps a rare holistic/system-wide area :D
<kof673>
you can do things you would never be allowed to do on other projects, make huge changes, etc.
<sortie>
n00by, oh and sticking around in this chat is a great tip, lots of people to talk to when obscure stuff comes up :) You'd be horrified to see the stuff we've debugged
<sortie>
There comes a point in every person's osdev journey where they encounter an impossible problem. Impossible to debug, super weird, and it's making everything fail, nobody else can help you, google fails. Somehow, somehow, you solve that problem, and you feel powerful
<kof673>
that: > understanding solutions others have come up with https://www.mit.edu/~xela/tao.html "Sir Thief," he said, "I am so perplexed, I cannot live in peace. Please enlighten me. What is it that you are stealing?" The man smiled. "I am stealing ideas," he said.
<sortie>
I'm sure we can suggest a ton of really weird debugging strategies that normal people would never use
<n00by>
just getting started tbh, so it's unlikely that i'd encounter tricky stuff like that, but sure i'll stick around to learn as i go forward, i was thinking about tinkering with netbsd in a VM. linux is overwhelming ngl
<n00by>
earlier versions, and the a.out stuff seems approachable though
<nikolar>
cue heat telling you that *bsd is pessimal and you should do linux instead lol
<n00by>
kof673: thanx for the link, interesting read :)
<n00by>
nikolar: heat is a pro from what i can tell :P
<nikolar>
well, nowadays that is also technically true
<nikolar>
he's employed to work on the kernel
<n00by>
omg
<n00by>
awesome
<GeDaMo>
You can't just say "the kernel" in here, which one? :P
<nikolar>
well we were talking about linux
<n00by>
duh
<nikolar>
(no, he isn't emplyed to work on onyx)
<n00by>
LOL
<GeDaMo>
n00by: did I recommend Ben Eater's 6502 videos?
<n00by>
you did at some point in either #hardware or ##electronics i guess :P
<GeDaMo>
I know I did recently, couldn't remember where :P
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<Ermine>
any part of programming is about RTFMing
<Ermine>
except webdev
<zid>
hey, stealing frm stack overflow
<zid>
counts as well
<sortie>
<GeDaMo> You can't just say "the kernel" in here, which one? :P
<sortie>
I'm still upset that they went with kernel.org
<GeDaMo>
:D
<sortie>
I should install the Sortix kernel as /boot/kernel to fuck with em
<sortie>
Meanwhile libc.org is an advertisement for musl
<sortie>
I wonder if I can get sortix.libc.org for antitrust reasons
<gog>
oh i have a lot of fun debugging things
<gog>
heat programs linux which is a rookie mistake
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<nikolar>
sortie: i don't think anyone really cares what the other kernels call themselves
<klys>
would be nice to have a modernized linux 2.6 kernel