<bslsk05>
stackoverflow.com: c - Can endianness refer to the order of bits in a byte? - Stack Overflow
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<sortie>
n00by: :) Bitness is generally something one does not have to think about since the hardware takes care of it, and you get a number between 0 and 255 inclusive that has the usual mathematical properties, and thus its exact representation doesn't matter (and you can't observe it)
<heat>
> you can't observe it
* heat
laughs in sidechannel
<n00by>
well, heat's a pro
<n00by>
ah, now i see it, thanks sortie :3
<nikolar>
i've done gpu passthrough with just qemu before
<nikolar>
it's certainly possible
<heat>
oh definitely
* sortie
is a pro too, the difference between heat and me is who gets paid and who does whatever they want :)
<heat>
it's just a pain though
<nikolar>
not realyl
<nikolar>
the pain is that no one documents it online and every tutorial is about virt-manager
<heat>
i went through a whole process with setting up intel vGPUs
<heat>
that was most definitely a PITA
<heat>
(ending up in a vfio-pci-ish passthrough with QEMU)
<nikolar>
> -device vfio-pci,host=07:00.1
<nikolar>
that's basically all you need to do with qemu
<nikolar>
you need to set up iommus and blacklist the device
<nikolar>
or bind it to vfio or something i forgor the details
<heat>
i generally like using QEMU directly but for fuckier stuff virt-manager can take it
<nikolar>
but you'd need to do that regardless of wether you're using qemu or virt-manger
<heat>
not really
<heat>
i'm 70% sure with virt-manager it Just Works or something
<nikolar>
unless virt-manager can unbind the kernel drivers and remap iommus or whatever then no, it doesn't just work
<heat>
why would it not be able to?
<nikolar>
iommu stuff is in your bios
<n00by>
sortie: stuff he said about sidechannel black magic is actually not that common and i guess it would require probing the internals via "guessing" of some sort
<nikolar>
n00by: it's far more commoon than you think
<heat>
you don't need to set up shit in your BIOS, generally
<nikolar>
it usually requires physical access so it's not *that* much of an issue
<n00by>
> Bit order is only meaningful when bits are serialized, for example via a serial or SPI or I2C bus; one after another.
<n00by>
no, like how would you get this information without jtag access?
<nikolar>
??
<n00by>
the stackoverflow access i linked, had this part
<n00by>
answer*
<n00by>
i TBH, think the sidechannel stuff is unrelated
<sortie>
The side channel stuff is largely unrelated yeah. My point is that you don't get this information, n00by, because the bit representation in bytes is not observable
<n00by>
nikolar: without a hardware debugger it's generally not possible (i've heard) to get the physical machine state
<heat>
just because you haven't had a side channel in the memory controller because of internal bit ordering
<heat>
does not mean you'll never find one
<nikolar>
yea
<heat>
rowhammer is a perfect example actually, so yeah it does matter
<heat>
abstractions leak like all the fucking time
<sortie>
rocket science isn't sidechannel attacks
<sortie>
sure you got delta v but have you ever read the server private keys straight from an isolated sandbox in a virtual machine
<sortie>
ask heat a question like 'I'm thinking about a number between 0 and 255' and he's already using your credit card numbers because you speculated about talking to him
<nikolar>
heat: oh wow
<nikolar>
how did i not know about rowhammer until now
<heat>
no clue!
<nikolar>
sick
<heat>
it's the greatest thing ever
<nikolar>
absolutely
<n00by>
sortie: LOL
<nikolar>
sortie: well generally, heat would need to tell you to do stuff like take your credit card out of your pocket or whatever
<nikolar>
there has to be some related operation
<sortie>
nikolar: heat can just speculate all that about me
<heat>
guys please send me pics of the front and back of your credit cards
<heat>
thanks
<nikolar>
i don't have a credit card :(
<heat>
also can you send me a SIM + pin for your phone number?
<sortie>
oh no I looked at the front of my credit cards
<nikolar>
sortie: now you're exploitable
<sortie>
quickly, heat, measure my reaction time when looking at my credit cartds
<heat>
3D secure is such a pain when you're trying to commit fraud
<sortie>
We need to start a wiki page with heat facts
<nikolar>
kek
<sortie>
Try 3D secure when trying to rebase fraud
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<n00by_>
> projects promoting programming in natural language are intrinsically doomed to fail!
<n00by_>
i like it, yeah llama == incompetent_normie
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<GeDaMo>
I remember a quote along the lines of "If you make it possible for programmers to program in English, you will find that programmers cannot program in English" :P
<n00by_>
heh, vide coding. more like chimp keyboard assault lol
<n00by_>
vibe*
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<n00by_>
uh, is there any document that expands on what the sysV abi already contains?
<zid>
expands it to what?
<zid>
GeDaMo: pretty much exactly what cobol proved
<zid>
just because you can write business logic in english, doesn't mean that execs can suddenly do it, they ended up still needing programmers
<nikolar>
hey, cobol is still relevant
<zid>
yes, proving it didn't work
<zid>
the point of cobol was "we wouldn't need programmers if it was in english, you'd just have the secretary do it while you signed the business contract"
<n00by_>
zid: like the chapter 8 in the latest edition titled "execution environment" just says "not done yet"
<zid>
sure you have.. an up to date pdf?
<n00by_>
> AMD64 ABI 1.0 – March 12, 2025 – 14:05
<nikolar>
link me
<zid>
use the elf pdf
<zid>
it describes what the actual execution environment will be
<bslsk05>
lwn.net: How programs get run: ELF binaries [LWN.net]
<n00by_>
thanx zid, ill read that
<zid>
(mainly ld.so complexities)
<kof673>
i'm guessing that is a dig at cobol lol > projects promoting programming in natural language
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<heat>
kernie the kernel
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<nikolar>
bernie the bernel
<heat>
feel the bern
<zid>
usbie the usbnel, nikolar
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<mjacob>
Many examples using EDK 2 seem to add the application to MdeModulePkg. Is this common practice or should I create my own package?
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<sortie>
build-aux/installtest.sh is still some of the coolest tech I built for my OS: It automatically runs my OS installer and installs it into a virtual machine harddisk image, using a configuration file with answers for unattended operation. My CI runs it before publishing releases, making sure my builds are functional. It also tests upgrading one release to another.
<heat>
weekly post by the Ministry of Truth of the Democratic Republic of Sortix
<sortie>
minicat true
<sortie>
sortix has always been at war with our best friends over at onyx
<heat>
HAVE YOU HEARD OF THE GREAT BUILD-AUX/INSTALLTEST.SH BUILT BY GREAT LEADER JONAS SORTIE TERMANSEN TO DEFEAT EVIL ONYX STATE THAT WANTS TO DESTROY OUR GREAT REPUBLIC AND WAY OF LIVING
<bslsk05>
<heat*> but i wrote a nice script to port glibc commits to onyx
<sortie>
It is bash but you do get credit for SPDX-License-Identifer
<sortie>
sed -i s/${linuxdeps//\//\\\/}/${onyxdeps//\//\\\/}/g $patch ← oh! I remember you being proud of that line \o/
<sortie>
I like nice support scripts like that, heat :)
<heat>
it's super nice that git format-patch can just filter by file there
<sortie>
format-patch is op
<heat>
it saved some patchutils invocations
<sortie>
git noobs be like "oh it's commit push and merge" and real pros be like "WE'RE GOING BACK IN TIME"
<sortie>
git rebase and, god forbid, git filter-branch is way more insane than your common impossible-to-understand time travel movie
<sortie>
git rebase is a time machine, git filter-branch is god's power to reimagine the universe
<heat>
real pros use format-patch and send-email
<heat>
it's what Linus would've wanted
<zid>
just don't filter-branch so much that linus suspends your security clearance
<heat>
heh
<sortie>
I like git send email but I dislike it doesn't result in the same commit on the other end
<heat>
it's not supposed to
<sortie>
But push does
<heat>
you want the maintainer to add his signed-off-by
<heat>
AS LINUS INTENEDD
<heat>
INTENDED
<sortie>
It could have reproduced the commit exactly with the same metadata and then the maintainer -s could be added in the merge
<sortie>
As Linus intended
<zid>
but then you could STEAL MY PATCHES
<sortie>
SHARING IS CARING
<heat>
linus definitely didn't intend that!
<sortie>
linus is an ideal not a person
<zid>
I read that wrong because of the lack of comma
<zid>
Linus is an ideal "not a person"
<heat>
that's what an anti-linus such as yourself would say
<sortie>
i use lowercase shit posting not commas
<heat>
with your terse commit messages
<Ermine>
I've got brainwashed by onyx propaganda
<Ermine>
now i'm voteless
<heat>
you're voteless? you're voteful
<sortie>
I was born in 1991, year of the Linux, and I started Sortix in 2011 before I turned 20
<zid>
I am older than germany, sortie is younger
<sortie>
zid, that's false, technically Germany as it exists today is a continuation of the federal republic of germany
<Ermine>
heat: not in democratic republic of sortix
<zid>
nope, I am older than Germany
<heat>
zid was born in 1870
<sortie>
zid, how old are you?
<zid>
2 years older than you :P
<zid>
berlin wall fell in late 89
<sortie>
is that you taylor swift
<heat>
close enough
<heat>
welcome taylor swift!
<heat>
Signed-off-by: Taylor Swift <tswift@gmail.com>
<sortie>
zid, indeed, but funny thing is that west germany continued to exist, and east germany stopped to exist and was just merged into west germany
<Ermine>
zid born just in time to witness berlin wall fall
<zid>
German reunification (German: Deutsche Wiedervereinigung) was the process of re-establishing Germany as a single sovereign state, which began on 9 November 1989 and culminated on 3 October 1990 with the dissolution of the German Democratic Republic
<zid>
Read it and weep
<sortie>
zid be born in 1989 'look at me making the berlin wall fall'
<sortie>
sortie be born in 1991 'bro hold my beer'
<heat>
hey sortie did you drink beer here in portugal
<zid>
also chauchachcesecu was killed in december 89
<sortie>
heat, I think I did have one
<zid>
so I am older than fake communism too
<heat>
sortie: i'm going to need a rating here
<zid>
does portugal make beer
<Ermine>
who got killed?
<heat>
yeah we have beers
<zid>
or do you just import it all from central europe
<heat>
Ermine: ceausecu
<sortie>
Unfortunately I had more beers in spain for various reasons
<sortie>
I very much liked the spanish lemon beer
<heat>
ceausescu
<heat>
jesus
<zid>
Ceaușescu
<heat>
there's this app where beer snobs rate beers
<sortie>
I got drunk with a friend drinking lemon beer on George Orwell's plaza
<zid>
has he ever had a real beer
<heat>
and they rate every popular beer around 3 out of 5
<zid>
or just a shitty lager
<heat>
guinness gets a 3.70 because of the brits
<heat>
it's so stupid
<zid>
guinness is okay
<heat>
but the most insulting bit is that they think sagres < superbock
<heat>
when in reality it's sagres > superbock
<zid>
at least it isn't a shitty lager
<sortie>
heat, unfortunately I think I just had a random beer in Lisbon looking over the coast, don't think it was anything in particular, but I recall liking it (it's beer)
<zid>
superbock is better, got it
* kof673
mixes absolute C with super[l]ock
<Ermine>
well, anyway, any communism out there is fake
<zid>
heat: did you find a can of john smiths yet
<heat>
superblock
<sortie>
heat, I can pop down and we can have that beer I owe ya?