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<sortie>
Then: Hello sortie this a nice little MR
<sortie>
Now: Fixing a bug in GNU make
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<Ermine>
just use ninja
<mcrod>
hi
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<kof673>
https://github.com/tsoding/nob.h that is sort of interesting, but i'd rather just bundle/embed the hashes of source archives that were used, or even the full source lol
<bslsk05>
tsoding/nob.h - Header only library for writing build recipes in C. (68 forks/1194 stargazers/NOASSERTION)
<kof673>
meaning i am more interested, can the user easily get the source that was used to make a binary (or library, etc.)
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<bslsk05>
news.ycombinator.com: Canonicals Interview Process | Hacker News
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<Ermine>
morale: don't go to canonical, go to red hat instead
<mjg>
YES
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<sortie>
heat, honestly a big reason why I just said fuck it and went to get my own funding and work on sortix full time
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<heat>
don't let canonical make you believe there's only canonical
<sortie>
I still wanna like ubuntu.. relive the good ol days of 2008
<sortie>
the wobbly windows!
<sortie>
gnome 2!
<sortie>
the way god intended
<sortie>
I feel good having switched all my systems to debian. pub.sortix.org is still ubuntu, doesn't feel a good idea to migrate that to debian tho
<mjg>
well i don't know if canonical being particularly fucked is a reason :P
<mjg>
in most companies the interview process is not anywhere near as perplexing
<sortie>
Honestly heat's setup with suse sounds quite good
<Ermine>
i'd switch to opensuse
<mjg>
Ermine: don't, heat is working on it
<heat>
i don't work on opensuse
<mjg>
Ermine: switch, heat is not working on it
<Ermine>
well, it's sortie who runs debian and ubuntu
<sortie>
heat is actually a sortix spy in the linux kernel, you can see the sortix cloak plain and simple if you hire a PI to look closelyt
<heat>
i will be co-maintaining the master branch for SUSE that tracks linux mainline Soon
<mjg>
OH
<heat>
and that eventually flows to tumbleweed
<mjg>
that's a big step
<heat>
not really
<sortie>
heat: assistant to the regional co-maintainer of the repository that tracks another repository
<sortie>
soon
<mjg>
sortie: but in the SUSE branch it means something!
<Ermine>
most open positions in rh are senior
<heat>
Ermine: as far as I've heard, RH only hires remote for senior and up
<mjg>
"senior" req at red hat are basically like junior elsewhere
<heat>
now
<heat>
as in, if you're not senior then get fucked lol
<mjg>
you literally can't expect a "senior" rh to know what a file descriptor is
<mjg>
and i don't mean some arcane bullshit around the matter
<mjg>
i met people who did not know fd numbers are per process for example
<mjg>
:x
<sortie>
maybe they should have focused on high school math and they would have known what a fd is
<heat>
that's not true
<mjg>
hell ye, i got fds in high school!
<mjg>
heat: what, shared fd tables? fuck off with the linux bs here
<heat>
the guy we got from red hat is really good
<sortie>
child, in this house we fork our fd tables with the address space
<mjg>
i did not say everyone from red hat is worthless
<heat>
and his team-mates were all maintainers of various pieces of critical software
<mjg>
i said it is the majority
<mjg>
and that majority also holds senior titles
<heat>
i don't know if it's the majority, or if it's just the pirate party guy
<mjg>
basically the baseline to get one is having a pulse
<sortie>
heat is actually a senior sortix contributor
<Ermine>
Karol Herbst is from rh and he's clearly competent too
<mjg>
heat: it is the majority. if anything, the guy no longer being at rh suggests he was one of the good guys
<heat>
yeah senior as in "i contributed so long ago those commits are senior citizens"
<mjg>
i'm a senior ONYX contributor
<mjg>
i have changes in a critical kernel subsystem (vfs)
<mjg>
innit right heat
<heat>
yes!
<sortie>
heat, technically you're a sortix staff technical advisor, you review the proposals and don't do the day to day coding which you delegate
<sortie>
to me
<sortie>
My code was submitted, by AI, to Linux stable today *pride*
<Ermine>
/dev/llm in sortix when
<kof673>
shuttleworth is not wrong in the modern world, but before soviet usa, there was theoretically education instead of workforce training :D
<kof673>
i mean...that is the norm in many ways
<mjg>
i'm creating my own company
<heat>
mjg: red hat has a lot of really skilled guys, that's all I'm saying. I would guess that heavily fluctuates with the team you're on
<mjg>
i'm gonna focus on middle school in interviews
<mjg>
heat: in terms of head count of course it does
<kof673>
its supposed to be lifelong yes, but off topic :D
<kof673>
they beat you to it :D
<mjg>
heat: there is literally thousands of people working there
<FireFly>
I like to imagine this being asking middle-school exam questions in the interview
<mjg>
heat: so even if liek 10% was any good, that's still TONS of people
<sortie>
i will use the grades from the university of osdev. i will find your initial commit of your os, look at <stdio.h>, and grade it. automatic fail if you don't have it. automatic fail if it violates the C standard.
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<sortie>
automatic fail if rust
<sortie>
i am mean
<sortie>
my hires are the best. i have never hired anyone
<mjg>
i would only pass haskell kernels
<sortie>
I did hire people for Google tho
<sortie>
I liked it
<clever>
mjg: ever seen halvm?
<sortie>
One time I asked a Google candidate to tell me about a deadline they had to meet. Then they told me about building a robot for the (human) cadaver lab
<mjg>
clever: no and i regret googling it
<sortie>
literally a dead. line.
<clever>
mjg: it was just a thin layer, where ghc expects syscall support code, that allowed haskell to run in ring0, lol
<clever>
it would then be shoved under xen, and run as a paravirtual guest
<mjg>
i tried to hire some people at red hat. of the people i let in only 2 actually got employed. in other cases management sacked the position or the candidate got stolen by another department
<mjg>
:X
<Ermine>
hire me
<mjg>
clever: that's terrible, but it's probably how i would do it i had to
<Ermine>
(jk)
<heat>
Ermine: i would tell you to apply to SUSE but you'd need to get out of russia
<mjg>
in general i'm more offended by func lang advocates than func langs themselves tho
<heat>
which is either a plus or a minus depending on... you
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<kof673>
canonical is london actually, but wouldn't say that changes anything :D
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<gaze__>
whatup geist
<zid>
heat: I've yet to hear anything good from any tech company re recruiting
<gaze__>
I mean we're recruiting pretty hard.
<gaze__>
sorry I didn't catch the earlier part of the conversation
<zid>
who's we?
<gaze__>
well quantum computing companies in general
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<sortie>
I have a quantum computing book right here propping up my monitor
<zid>
best use for it tbh :P
<heat>
zid: big tech is fine
<heat>
SUSE was a good experience too
<zid>
big tech is very not fine lol, I've heard billions of just awful stories
<heat>
big tech will get you doing leetcode
<heat>
but that's the worst bit
<gaze__>
stacked rank sounds kinda terrible, too
<sortie>
look we all moved a protobuf or two in our day
<zid>
on a whiteboard, then ask you how many manholes are in new york
<zid>
because google asked it once in 2008 so it must be good
<zid>
or they get their "despites" and their "regardless ofs" confused and try to act like steve jobs and be an asshole to you
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<kof673>
that was jobs IIRC he told people to "Justify their job" so that lives i guess :D
<kof673>
*who
<gaze__>
I remember a story about jobs firing a guard because he forgot his badge and the guard wouldn't let him in
<heat>
zid: sure some interviews are stupid
<heat>
my interview process with facebook was pretty great
<zid>
europe facebook or america facebook?
<zid>
that, I presume, matters most
<heat>
yurop
<gaze__>
the america facebook interviews drag on for an unreasonable number of rounds, right?
<zid>
also lol, someone mentioned on reddit that microsoft used to be evil and all the.. average reddit users are all shocked pikachu face
<zid>
because they weren't even born in the 90s
<nikolar>
implying that they stopped being evil
<nikolar>
which is a lol
<zid>
I mean, they're still a tech giant
<zid>
but they used to be actively evil
<zid>
nestle of the tech world
<gog>
they're still evil
<gog>
actively evil
<gaze__>
they're definitely still actively evil!
<zid>
facebook absolutely demolished them in the league tables
<zid>
microsoft is barely worth talking about these days
<zid>
google too, and amazon
<gog>
i mean yeah a lot of companies rocketed past them in the level of evil possible
<zid>
ama "die in this warehouse please" zon
<gog>
facebook especially with the myanmar genocide business
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<nikolar>
what's with facebook and myanmar genocide business
<gaze__>
microsoft has azure contracts for similar things
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<zid>
there's an hilarious quote article for that nikolar
<zid>
basically there was a genocide in burma/myanmar, organized over facebook
<nikolar>
oh kek
<zid>
and facebook's response was that moderating is too much effort
<heat>
e.g IRC isn't, but i'm using a paid IRC service that's hosting my client $somewhere and giving me logs and persistence and <...> in exchange for moneyz
<sortie>
heat: i will host your bouncer and only inject minor messages to make you love sortix as you always have will done
<heat>
you need to develop some sort of AUTOSEL
<sortie>
git log --grep='Fix' ← literallyt
<heat>
you are a regular person. does this message shittalk sortix or POSIX?
<sortie>
hello i would like to order an airplane ticket with extra posix
<heat>
sortie: i'll have you know that AUTOSEL in practice kind-of works like that
<heat>
and "Fix:" doesn't necessarily imply it should be backported
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<sortie>
For 1.1.x I'll be trying to backport Fix commits
<sortie>
At least if they apply cleanly, or are serious
<heat>
there's a very strong correlation between "fix <something>" or "Fixes: <commit>" and commits backported to stable
<heat>
so in practice mr LLM will say "yeah bro totes stable"
<sortie>
The autosel conversation with itself in today's emails was hilarious. It was basically repeating to itself over and over that this was a fix and it believed it to be user critical
<heat>
hilarious, scary
<heat>
what's the difference
<sortie>
a number of letters
<heat>
linux's solution to stable is the same as a college student's solution to a crappy project
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<sortie>
Interesting that it only backported it to 6.12 but not older long term kernels. Maybe those have a different schedule or threshold or maybe the patch just didn't apply
<heat>
yes, if the patch doesn't apply it will just not
<sortie>
How much does distros use the kernel.org stable/lts kernels? Do they use their own infra and editorialness to pick what commits they want?
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<heat>
opensuse leap uses SUSE enterprise kernels
<sortie>
Does that mean you cherry-pick your own stable commits?
<heat>
yeah
<sortie>
So someone on your team is looking through all master commits and picks the ones that taste good?
<heat>
debian uses k.o stable, arch uses mainline stable, ubuntu... not sure about ubuntu
<heat>
no, we have infra to track commits that hit stable, or commits that have a cromulent Fixes: <commit> tag
<sortie>
So you're more or less downstream of autosel
<sortie>
You look at what it does, things that matches your own patterns, then you cherry-pick those if you like the taste?
<heat>
we're kind of downstream of stable
<heat>
whether the stable is actual stable or autosel autojunk depends on the subsystem
<heat>
of course sometimes other patches are applied for other reasons
<heat>
also worth noting that we have kABI stability and upstream stable does not
<heat>
so sometimes fixes need to be reworked
<Ermine>
be cachyos
<Ermine>
use some random kernal patches
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<heat>
current SUSE Linux 16 is already ~8500 patches deep from 6.12
<heat>
Ermine: yeah those BS "fast" or "gaming" distros apply the most fucked up unready patches ever
<heat>
i caught the -zen kernel a few months ago using some TLB patches that weren't fully reviewed and would only really matter for big server software
<zid>
I run kernel.org kernels because I am a weeb
<Ermine>
heat: so i believe distros should have a dedicated team for dealing with the kernel
<heat>
yeah but distros are generally volunteer-ran
<Ermine>
yes...
<heat>
arch has like... one professional (not for them) kernel developer on the team
<heat>
and that's already pretty good
<zid>
It's one more thing to package, at least
<zid>
if you want your distro to be gud and also special, you vendor your kernel just like you do your default sshd config
<gaze__>
redhat definitely had that, google does internally, right?
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<zid>
google has a billion custom kernels knocking about I assume
<heat>
google has like 3 or 4 separate kernel teams
<zid>
especially android
<Ermine>
google has gregkh
<heat>
prodkernel, android, chromeos, google cloud
<zid>
I bet their routing hw is tuned/tweaked
<zid>
their main use (rather than main product) is routing hw, storage hw
<zid>
wouldn't surprise me if they had custom shit for their datacenter's networking, and datacenter's.. data
<heat>
oh definitely likely
<heat>
facebook has their own NIC driver for their own NIC upstream
<Ermine>
(while Adélie has patches for ancient devices, yet it took quite some time to toggle that config param which prevented screen from working on x86_64)
<zid>
yea by "wouldn't surprise me" I should have said, "WOuld be incredibly suprised if they did not"
<bslsk05>
horsle.glitch.me: Horsle- the horse-based word game
<GeDaMo>
Did I not link you that a while ago? :P
<zid>
idk maybe
<nikolar>
Wow it's crazy that compiler explorer actually works at all
<Ermine>
you won't get support with pirated sles either
<heat>
yeah it's literally opensuse leap but illegal
<nikolar>
Kek
<heat>
that said it's about time zid goes to jail
<zid>
what did I do now
<nikolar>
Pirate sles i think
<heat>
he knows what he did.
<Ermine>
what about free rhel?
<Ermine>
This is what centos used to be
<zid>
I didn't pirate it, I asked heat to pirate it
<GeDaMo>
Was there not some other project which was a free version of Red Hat? I want to say Rocket
<GeDaMo>
Oh, it's Rocky :P
<GeDaMo>
"Rocky Linux is an open-source enterprise operating system designed to be 100% bug-for-bug compatible with Red Hat Enterprise Linux®." https://rockylinux.org/
<bslsk05>
rockylinux.org: Rocky Linux
<Ermine>
ah, now i remember, also almalinux
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<heat>
Ermine: how would you like to be onyx stable maintainer?
<Ermine>
Are you going to deploy autosel for onyx?
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<nikolar>
What's autosel
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<Ermine>
nikolar: a neural network that proposes patches to be backported in stable kernel releases
<nikolar>
Funsies
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<heat>
Ermine: yeah you can just use chatgpt
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