#commonlisp on 2025-08-18 — irc logs at libera.catirclogs.org

2022-07-28 16:55 jackdaniel changed the topic of #commonlisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language | Wiki: <https://www.cliki.net> | IRC Logs: <https://irclog.tymoon.eu/libera/%23commonlisp> | Cookbook: <https://lispcookbook.github.io/cl-cookbook> | Pastebin: <https://plaster.tymoon.eu/>

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11:26 <dutchie> I have a loop inside a defun like (defun foo (arg) (loop for stuff do (setf arg (something-else)) more stuff)). is there some loop keyword I'm missing to update the arg variable? or should I just do (loop for s = stuff then (something-else))? I'd like to reuse/shadow the name but that doesn't seem to work

11:27 <beach> What you are doing should modify the parameter variable ARG. But that's often not a good idea because of what you see when you examine a backtrace.

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11:28 <beach> It is much better to introduce a new variable with (LET ((NEW ARG)) ...).

11:28 <beach> Oh, wait, you want it to be modified in the caller?

11:28 <dutchie> no, just within the loop

11:28 <beach> That's not possible. Common Lisp is call-by-value.

11:28 <beach> That should work then.

11:30 <dutchie> it doesn't really need to be modified (it's just an id that I increment based on the last result fetched each time)

11:30 <beach> ,(let ((arg 10)) (loop repeat 10 do (incf arg)) arg)

11:30 <ixelp> => 20

11:31 <beach> dutchie: See? It works.

11:31 <dutchie> so (loop for id = start-id then (compute-next-id response) and response = (whatever))

11:32 <dutchie> actually response = (whatever id)

11:33 <beach> Looks plausible.

11:33 <beach> But that's a totally different example from the one in your first question.

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11:34 <beach> This last example gets tricky because you use RESPONSE before you introduce it, so the order of evaluation might be surprising somtime.

11:35 <beach> *sometime

11:35 <dutchie> the first attempt was (loop for response = (whatever id) do (setf id (compute-next-id response))) where ID was the parameter

11:36 <beach> That's a third example.

11:36 <beach> But that should work too, for some value of "work".

11:37 <dutchie> yeah, I was mostly wondering what the "best" way to do it is

11:37 <beach> Oh, that wasn't clear.

11:37 <beach> I would go for some variant of your second example.

11:38 <beach> I try not to modify the parameter variable.

11:38 <dutchie> right. the only annoying thing for that one is having to come up with two names for the same thing

11:38 <dutchie> but I suppose I could just (let ((id id)) (loop ...))

11:39 <beach> Yes, but again it is often not great when you examine or modify the backtrace.

11:40 <beach> And you can avoid the LET by introducing a WITH LOOP clause, if you prefer.

11:40 <beach> It might depend on how much horizontal space you have at your disposal.

11:41 <beach> You save two horizontal positions then.

11:43 <dutchie> I think it's ok to have START-ID and ID variables

11:44 <beach> Sure.

11:46 <beach> dutchie: By the way, are you new here? I don't recognize your nick.

11:48 <dutchie> yes, I am new-ish

11:48 <dutchie> more so to the channel than common lisp, but I wouldn't call myself an expert

11:50 <beach> I see. Welcome to the channel, then.

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11:54 <dutchie> thank you!

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12:34 <jackdaniel> some fallout from this channel discussions about images and operating systems: https://far.chickenkiller.com/computing/do-i-need-a-lisp-machine-comeback/

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12:47 <beach> Was Genera a persistent system?

12:47 <jackdaniel> I don't know (and I've only skimmed the blog post)

12:48 <beach> I suspect not. As I recall, the garbage collector was so slow that it was preferable to turn the machine off and back on again. If it were persistent, that would not work.

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