<farkuhar>
I revisited the 29 April trainwreck in #crux, to identify precisely when pitillo interjected his opinion that "opening a discussion/talk on IRC" was the wrong choice (he offered mailing list as the best alternative, for anyone too old-school to adopt a Gitea workflow).
<farkuhar>
Gitea itself has a long-standing open issue https://github.com/go-gitea/gitea/issues/184 which, if implemented, would allow guests to open a pull request from any other host that speaks git. No need to register a new account with every project's Gitea instance, just to submit a patch.
<zorz_>
what i am talkin.... i updated rc and is the same as before.
<zorz_>
with prt-get sysup
<zorz_>
ppetrov^: check if you find pip2crux please.
<farkuhar>
zorz_: The 2.34.1 -> 2.34.2 changes were pushed by jue, as a stopgap measure before they do a more thorough review of our pull request. But there's no telling how many long-time users they'll alienate while their ugly fix (2.34.2) is still the official one, and a much saner version is stuck in the backlog of open tickets.
<zorz_>
aaa okay.... cause i updated keeping in mind is the new one
<zorz_>
and i see again lvm\
<zorz_>
heh
<farkuhar>
Gitlab is ahead of the curve, on the matter of accepting merge requests from one-off contributors who'd rather not create a throwaway account on yet another server. https://gitlab.com/gitlab-org/gitlab-foss/-/issues/40830
<farkuhar>
I missed an opportunity to remind pitillo that the official website still lists IRC as a legitimate venue for feedback from users. If they aren't going to be responsive to IRC discussions, then they should purge the website of all references to #crux, or even go so far as to retire the channel.
<farkuhar>
ppetrov^: The red MAGA hat should be rebranded to say "Make CRUX Great Again". No need to single out the rc scripts specifically, when there are other "improvements" that need to be rolled back to restore Per's vision.
<SiFuh_>
farkuhar: Make CRUX beerman Free Again
<farkuhar>
Any suggestions on how this page should be changed, to reflect how development is actually happening these days? https://crux.nu/Main/IrcChannels
<farkuhar>
Obviously the urls can be updated, because irclog.whitequark.org has the same DNS resolution as catirclogs.org now. But a more substantial revision of the wording is warranted, given how rarely we see the core team hanging out in the "official" channels anymore.
<farkuhar>
And the only reason the IrcChannels page was updated within the past 5 years is the Freenode takeover, which prompted so many FOSS projects to migrate their channels to a new server. Other than that, the text of the page is basically the same as it was at the time of the last frinnst release.
<farkuhar>
At which time, it might be recalled, the core team did actually respond to feedback from users in the official IRC channels. Now they're too elitist to respond even if you mention something in #crux-devel.
<SiFuh_>
#crux-social General discussion and support
<farkuhar>
olutmies did eventually reply the next day to these posts: https://libera.catirclogs.org/crux-devel/2024-09-11 But whatever he meant by "look into it" was obviously too cursory to fix the underlying issues: code duplication, lack of modularity, injecting non-essential features into a core port, ...
<SiFuh_>
Apparently jue says it isn't
<SiFuh_>
farkuhar: There needs to be a developer and port maintainer maintainer.
<farkuhar>
If pitillo is going to recommend the mailing list as a venue more likely to get the core team's attention, then he needs to grapple with the fact that it's been three days since Markus asked a question on the ML about /usr/lib/python3.10/site-packages leftover from a CRUX 3.7 -> 3.8 upgrade, and we're still waiting for a reply from the core team.
<ppetrov^>
farkuhar, how about opening an "issue" at gitea?
<SiFuh_>
How about jumping into #crux and calling them out directly? Oh wait, that's the tried and true old way that some retard decided was not acceptable for him.
<ppetrov^>
well, they resolved an issue with qpdfviewer at gitea
<ppetrov^>
to me the whole situation is pretty funny
<farkuhar>
Who's volunteering to make the meme for that newly proposed role, a person to maintain the port maintainers? (screenshot the clip from Enemy of the State)
<ppetrov^>
go ahead farkuhar
<ppetrov^>
contribute
<farkuhar>
It's rather generous of https://i.imgflip.com/9tbiv5.jpg to talk about beerman *writing* all that code, in light of its uncanny similarity to the way TinyCore Linux colorizes its startup. But it doesn't roll off the tongue to have him saying "I copy-and-pasted some shitty code..."
<SiFuh_>
farkuhar: This website offers a bottle for 51.81. If you buy two for 149.67 you get the third bottle free. If you but three for 249.74 you get the other two free. Heh
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<zorz>
multi-prefix
<zorz>
ovelix, asterix... testiclelix :P
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<SiFuh_>
zorz: Hmm
<zorz>
?
<SiFuh_>
zorz: Just your weird words
<zorz>
farkuhar: make your distro asterix
<SiFuh_>
zorz: You were late by the way
<zorz>
late?
<zorz>
missed the party?
<SiFuh_>
Yes
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<SiFuh_>
zorz: I will take this chanisaw and cut down this tree this afternoon down the road.
<zorz>
ahahahaahaha
<zorz>
take the chainsaw and book a chapter flight to germany
<SiFuh_>
Charter flight
<SiFuh_>
His ISP is in Nuremberg
<zorz>
maybe is hetzner ip
<zorz>
Nuremberg is a hetzner cloud
<SiFuh_>
There are easier ways dude than flying there.
<zorz>
man lynx that true linuxers use it to dump html is in contrib
<zorz>
hahahhaha
<zorz>
you psycho bitch!
<farkuhar>
zorz: you prefer to have lynx in the opt repo?
<zorz>
not me,,, everybody
<farkuhar>
zorz: how can you presume to speak for everybody?
<zorz>
it goes together with mutt... and many cli utilities that dump html
<SiFuh_>
zorz: Just call the German police and give the location of his university and tell them he is planning to overthrow the government
<zorz>
no no no..... this is bad....
<SiFuh_>
zorz: It even is optional in my ckut.
<zorz>
dont do that
<SiFuh_>
zorz: Why would I do that?
<zorz>
for beerman... dont stamp him to German police.
<SiFuh_>
It was an example zorz. Don't cry.
<zorz>
me cry?
<zorz>
heh
<SiFuh_>
zorz: ukky: You ever used a tig welder?
<zorz>
nope
<SiFuh_>
I will need to learn. I have done many kinds of welding before but never tig or mig.
<zorz>
bbl
<farkuhar>
zorz: true linuxers who use lynx to dump html are only able to do so for a diminishing proportion of all the websites out there. Nowadays much of the content delivered over HTTP(S) is generated on-the-fly with JavaScript-heavy frameworks, or progressively-loaded "web applications". Good luck getting lynx to render that.
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<SiFuh_>
ppetrov^: zorz said 'bbl'
<ppetrov^>
bbl?
<SiFuh_>
Yeah, I htink he is calling the German police
<farkuhar>
to accuse olutmies of stealing the CRUX name?
<SiFuh_>
Nah, something about terrorist olutmies activity against the government.
<zorz>
no for ppetrov^ I am hear :)
<zorz>
here*
<SiFuh_>
hear what?
<SiFuh_>
Hehe
<zorz>
hehehe
<farkuhar>
terrorist activity? Now why does that remind me of an accusation that stenur once made?
<SiFuh_>
ppetrov^: zorz is here
<zorz>
ppetrov^: tell me you have the pip2crux :)
<SiFuh_>
Can I tell you too?
<zorz>
SiFuh_: you have it?
<SiFuh_>
No I do not
<ppetrov^>
zorz, where do i download it from
<zorz>
fuck you... what kind of logs to you keep ?:P
<farkuhar>
SiFuh_ logs everything, but that doesn't mean he keeps a copy of every script that zorz shares via pastebin.
<zorz>
codeberg
<ppetrov^>
link?
<zorz>
ppetrov^: codeberg.org/zorz
<zorz>
ppetrov^: codeberg.org/zorz/crux i thing
<zorz>
think
<SiFuh_>
farkuhar: Man, if you know what logs I have from where and why, you'd never come back to Malaysia or talk to me again. Hahaha
<zorz>
farkuhar: yes he is a logger from Costco
<ppetrov^>
404
<ppetrov^>
The page you are trying to reach either does not exist, has been removed or you are not authorized to view it.
<ppetrov^>
zorz, do you have it still
<zorz>
no man i do not have it
<zorz>
and i am asking in case you have a copy of it.
<farkuhar>
Well, if even SiFuh the meticulous logger didn't keep a copy of pip2crux, then it's probably lost forever. Just write it again, zorz. It'll go quicker the second time.
<SiFuh_>
zorz: Did you lose it and need ppetrov^ to return you a copy?
<farkuhar>
Artix is based on Arch, which was inspired by CRUX (its early-2000s form, at least). The distro presently known as CRUX should adopt a different name, if it's not going to follow Per's vision.
<SiFuh_>
Inspired is the wrong word farkuhar
<ppetrov^>
what is the right word
<SiFuh_>
forked
<SiFuh_>
ppetrov^: He built it on CRUX. Use to come in the channel often asking us to help him.
<ppetrov^>
Aaron Somebody?
<SiFuh_>
Yeah started with A
<farkuhar>
Why doesn't the core team just apply to become Arch developers? They'd fit right in, given how they package things these days.
<ppetrov^>
hm, is 3.7 still being updated?
<SiFuh_>
package things these days/package things like gays*
<ppetrov^>
farkuhar, what is not packaged well?
<SiFuh_>
ppetrov^: olutmies
<ppetrov^>
btw, gimp install stuff in /usr/libexec
<ppetrov^>
isn't this against CRUX's packaging policies
<SiFuh_>
ppetrov^: If it has colours it is fine.
<ppetrov^>
should I open an "issue" at gitea
<SiFuh_>
ppetrov^: "CRUX users call for the resignation of olutmies"
<farkuhar>
ppetrov^: Make that the subject of your next post to the mailing list. See if they ignore it for more than the three days they've already ignored Markus.
<ppetrov^>
hmm, going therough the HandBook, i don't find the instructions about where packages install files
<SiFuh_>
probably erased to suit beerman's take over.
<farkuhar>
ppetrov^: did they get rid of the corresponding section of Pkgfile.5 (the man-page)?
<SiFuh_>
ppetrov^: /opt directory is reserved for manually compiled/installed applications. Packages should never place anything there. <-- I use this only for binary applications
<ppetrov^>
i know
<SiFuh_>
I think firefox-bin should be there too
<ppetrov^>
farkuhar, nope
<SiFuh_>
Consistency
<ppetrov^>
SiFuh_, the way I understand it, /opt is meant for stuff you install outside of the ports system. And, yes, I know, your ports install stuff there that is just being repackaged
<SiFuh_>
Yes, because it is considered unclean, and you should wash you hands 7 times and with water and sand.
<farkuhar>
ppetrov^: Heh, the takeover isn't complete, then. We still have a man-page as evidence that the standards aren't being upheld.
<SiFuh_>
dlcusa: farkuhar: "CRUX (ORIGINAL) - The way CRUX was meant to be"
<farkuhar>
SiFuh_: Ortho-CRUX
<SiFuh_>
farkuhar: What is it with you an religious shit?
<ppetrov^>
my system has nothing else in /usr/libexec
<farkuhar>
As dlcusa said, it's impossible to escape the CRUX=cross linguistic connection.
<ppetrov^>
i don't get it
<farkuhar>
ppetrov^: I'm trying to explain why my suggestions for distro name sometimes appear to have a religious flavor.
<SiFuh_>
farkuhar: But it doesn't mean that. Never has. It was a stupid name, he liked.
<SiFuh_>
It could have been contested but, no one did because it belonged to him
<SiFuh_>
farkuhar: You want to go dark? "Inverted CRUX"
<farkuhar>
Heh, he should have made a viral audio recording like Linus did, to demonstrate the correct pronunciation for all the users.
<dlcusa>
Whatever Per intended by his choice of distro name, it now comes with other historical baggage, much acquired this decade. It is better to choose a name that does not reference CRUX.
<SiFuh_>
Crux Inversa
<SiFuh_>
dlcusa: "Not CRUX"
<dlcusa>
Not really amused. I am sad at what CRUX has become.
<ppetrov^>
you guys don't like the name "CRUX"?
<SiFuh_>
dlcusa: Sad? I am fscking fuming!
<SiFuh_>
ppetrov^: Name sucked since the start. But he liked it, he owned it, so who were we to ask him to change it
<dlcusa>
I allow them their choices. I allow myself mine as well.
<farkuhar>
"Not CRUX", heh. I actually have a wrapper script ~/.local/bin/notmutt which was written when I migrated from mutt to mblaze, to take advantage of at least some muscle memory.
<ppetrov^>
i like the name
<ppetrov^>
it has the first and last letters of UniX, too
<SiFuh_>
farkuhar: dlcusa: I was thinking though. We have so many 'core' modules for gcc to actually work. Why not roll them into one?
<SiFuh_>
ppetrov^: So does SUX
<dlcusa>
Your distro, your design--why ask us?
<ppetrov^>
SiFuh_, if you fork CRUX name the new distro CRESCENT
<SiFuh_>
Islam
<SiFuh_>
dlcusa: All shitty because I decided to do my own?
<ppetrov^>
HEXAGRAM?
<dlcusa>
Not shitty at all, sir. I do not understand why you ask.
<SiFuh_>
ppetrov^: How about FRINGE if you want bleedin' edge Linux
<ppetrov^>
Lunatic Fringe
<SiFuh_>
dlcusa: No one is designing or attempting a distro. I grew tired of waiting.
<ppetrov^>
there's a transcription factor called like that
<dlcusa>
Good luck, then.
<SiFuh_>
dlcusa: I don't believe in luck or any form of stupidstition.
<dlcusa>
Did not think so.
<ppetrov^>
has any of you ever tried NuTyX?
<SiFuh_>
Yes
<ppetrov^>
how is it
<SiFuh_>
ppetrov^: Can never forget the name. Sounds like cutting the balls off of your pet dog so he can't procreate.
<SiFuh_>
ppetrov^: It's shit...
<ppetrov^>
NeuTeriX
<ppetrov^>
SiFuh_, why so?
<SiFuh_>
Because it was no CRUX
<SiFuh_>
ppetrov^: Want to see something interesting? Check out Gobo Linux
<ppetrov^>
ah, the wrid file organization
<ppetrov^>
no thanks
<ppetrov^>
i am past the stage of distrohopping
<SiFuh_>
ppetrov^: Can you convince zorz of that?
<farkuhar>
Didn't distrowatch or some site do a side-by-side review of CRUX and Gobo Linux?
<SiFuh_>
Okay, who had the hardware to build a new distro?
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<SiFuh_>
farkuhar: Also can we follow as close to bash rules as posible when making Pkgfiles?
<SiFuh_>
Should be two spaces. Not 4 spaces or 8 spaces or tabs...
<SiFuh_>
Verabiles should be quoted to prevent globbing
<SiFuh_>
Variables*
<SiFuh_>
Must be clean and easily readable
<farkuhar>
Does bash itself actually have rules about leading whitespace? Or are those just stylistic preferences?
<SiFuh_>
Yes tabs and spaces are 2 spaces
<ppetrov^>
you guys are serious about starting a new distro?
<SiFuh_>
farkuhar: As I have been wading through the core ports it is a fucking mess.
<SiFuh_>
dlcusa: is pushing us ppetrov^
<ppetrov^>
ah, ok... bla-bla-bla
<ppetrov^>
go on
<ppetrov^>
why variables should be quoted?
<SiFuh_>
I said that already ppetrov^
<farkuhar>
ppetrov^: to prevent accidental splitting on whitespace when the variable is dereferenced.
<farkuhar>
But sometimes you actually want the splitting on whitespace. Some Pkgfiles rely on that, rather than defining a bash array to hold the args passed to configure or cmake.
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<ppetrov^>
to prevent accidental splitting on whitespace when the variable is dereferenced.
<ppetrov^>
well, i dont' understand that
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<farkuhar>
When the shell replaces $PKG with its value in the string "$PKG/usr/share/", you probably don't want the result to be split into multiple arguments in the event that the user is building in a directory like "/home/luser/My Packages/opt/gimp".
<SiFuh_>
My Packages <-- split
<ppetrov^>
aaah
<ppetrov^>
this will happen?
<SiFuh_>
Yes
<SiFuh_>
farkuhar: emmett1 would like if we dumped bash altogether and just ran on POSIX sh
<ppetrov^>
SiFuh_, join the Venom team then?
<SiFuh_>
No
<farkuhar>
SiFuh_: we would have to change the Pkgfile format, to something more like what ScratchPkg uses.
<SiFuh_>
farkuhar: Heh, one thing I dislike is Venom and ScratchPkg name.
<ppetrov^>
sounds itchy
<SiFuh_>
ppetrov^: One thing I learned about Malay. They are bad at naming stuff, and their taste in music is terrible.
<ppetrov^>
"venom" Linux, does not sound nice
<SiFuh_>
dlcusa: See what I mean? I asked if anyone has the hardware to build a new distro and everyone is silent.
<SiFuh_>
ppetrov^: Yeah, reminds me of "Listeria Linux" heh
<ppetrov^>
histeria
<SiFuh_>
"Hemorrhoid GNU/hurd"
<zorz>
Syphelis Linux
<SiFuh_>
ppetrov^: We call it "Crohn's Linux" and our new BSD style init system can be called "Syphilis"
<zorz>
hahahahaa
<zorz>
hahahaha
<SiFuh_>
zorz: I just one upped on you
<zorz>
first me.
<zorz>
[23:08:22] < zorz> Syphelis Linux
<zorz>
[23:08:25] < SiFuh_> ppetrov^: We call it "Crohn's Linux" and our new BSD style init system can be called "Syphilis"
<SiFuh_>
zorz: My router in KL was called "Syphilis"
<dlcusa>
I was AFK. Do you mean test installation of a distro in some state approaching RC status? I could free up the AMD 8-core, a Dell Latitude E6410, and an aging Gigabyte platform. Not sure how fast or often I could test, though--income-producing requirements are being reassessed.
<zorz>
ofcourse... whatelse
<SiFuh_>
dlcusa: No I mean someone to build it.
<SiFuh_>
zorz: All my computers and drives, internal and external are named after diseases.
<dlcusa>
I'm sure I do not have time for that at this time, and likely in the next 12 months.
<zorz>
which one is COVID?
<zorz>
nieeeee covid not a disease!
<zorz>
I avoid joining #crux-musl because you are full of ideas... tooo much brain storming in there
<zorz>
:P
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<SiFuh_>
zorz: I don't use fake diseases
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<ukky>
SiFuh_: no, never used any welding. Once I tried simple welding: electrode attached to high-current welding power supply, but it was just a try out when I was a kid.