<erilun06-mobile>
Bte "Shutdown now" acts strangely for me, it doesn't actually power off the computer
<erilun06-mobile>
a/Bte/btw/
<erilun06-mobile>
%s
<erilun06-mobile>
Stupid autocorrect
<farkuhar>
According to shutdown(8) there are two flags that need to be passed if you want poweroff behaviour: -h -P
<erilun06-mobile>
Ah
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<remiliascarlet>
erilun06-mobile: I would read #crux, but there's so much "cruxbot" spam and Beerman (that guy hates me for some reason) that I rather not.
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<remiliascarlet>
SiFuh: "Wrong, Malaysia surrounds where I live." In Soviet Russia, Malaysia lives in you.
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<remiliascarlet>
ukky: "Made in Japan" Nowadays, most of Made in Japan is made in China, Vietnam, Thailand, or Phillipines.
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<remiliascarlet>
ukky: "And you can use C++ and still be minimalist." C++ is more like a balancing act between being a minimalist and having memory safety. Want more memory safety? Compile against a newer C++ standard, but have a more bloated standard library. Want more minimalism? Compile against an older C++ standard, but be prepared to write more code.
<erilun06-mobile>
remiliascarlet:yeah, the cruxbot spam is quite annoying
<remiliascarlet>
ukky: "My issues with Linux is the direction it takes: further and further from Unix philosophy." I have switched away from Linux almost completely too, at least on servers. Now that the last thing that was Linux-only has been ported to FreeBSD, there's no dependency on Linux left anymore, so I can replace that Devuan server with OpenBSD. Also, Linux has never been Unix to begin with, so it's
<remiliascarlet>
not like either GNU or Linux feel obligated to follow the Unix philosophy.
<erilun06-mobile>
remiliascarlet: I haven't written much c or C++ code, but I've written quite a lot of Arduino code, which is C(++) for Microcontrollers
<erilun06-mobile>
I personally prefer Lisp-style over C-Style languages, I just find Lisp to be more readable and closer to how I think
<erilun06-mobile>
And yes, I'm an Emacs user
<remiliascarlet>
I actually find Lisp to be more unreadable, but I guess it depends on what languages you came from.
<remiliascarlet>
I'm used to C-style languages, so to me C and C++ are more readable.
<erilun06-mobile>
I come from Java
<remiliascarlet>
I come from PHP, then C++, then C, Go, Zig, back to C and C++ almost exclusively now.
<remiliascarlet>
And I'm a Neovim enjoyer.
<erilun06-mobile>
So do you do some Lua?
<remiliascarlet>
I tried, but I gave up on it.
<erilun06-mobile>
I have a nvim question, how the heck do I remove the background? My terminal already has a theme and background colour, and then when I open Neovim for a quick edit, it makes my 20% transparent window gray(or whatever the default theme sets)
<erilun06-mobile>
Funny thing is that vim doesn't do that, and Emacs is a separate X window
<remiliascarlet>
Might be random. On some of my setups the background is transparent by default, while on other setups it's black.
<remiliascarlet>
As black as in a nigger's ass.
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<ppetrov^>
how's the better CRUX project going, guys?
<ppetrov^>
will it be based on CRUX, or it's from scratch
<ppetrov^>
i mean, will you follow CRUX's updates and so on
<SiFuh>
No idea. Having a huge break myself
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: No as far as we know, it will be based on the old CRUX and there will be a CRUX-MUSL, CRUX-GLIBC and later a CRUX-Multilib. 6 month releases. Only serious updates within the 6 months like security patches
<SiFuh>
Every 6 months will be a stable release, close to bleedin' edge. There will be several init systems. But mostly it will be based off a an rc bash script, there will be a binary rc as well, and I think zorz and ukky will have a runit modification for those who don't want BSD style scripting.
<SiFuh>
And we plan to leave behind #CRUX and work independantly, however, you can still copy the Pkgfiles from #CRUX but we don't have any intentions to add their repos.
<SiFuh>
And also there is a plan to have user contributed kernel configs available.
<ppetrov^>
interesting. So, it will not be a 'semi-rolling' distro, just sth like Slackware, with security updates, but much shorter release cycle
<SiFuh>
Yes and ukky mentioned having a stable a release and a current
<SiFuh>
Which is very BSD like and I think is a good idea too.
<ppetrov^>
and will use Pèr's pkgtools?
<SiFuh>
Yes
<SiFuh>
But I am also going to ask farkuhar to introduce aria2c as well as an option for download. It isn't difficult to patch it and I have a patched version probably laying around here still.
<ppetrov^>
will you use farkuhar's prt-get fork?
<SiFuh>
If it is good of course.
<SiFuh>
Because we will be splitting from CRUX then there can be many modifications.
<SiFuh>
And for those who want colour, we will probably introduce a separate port for that. rc-colour-mod or something like that
<SiFuh>
I've no intentions at all to introduce PAM at all. And sudo and doas will be in opt and not core.
<ppetrov^>
as I said: it's a pity to see knowledgeable user-base go, and IMHO your efforts could be merged with CRUX, an existing and well-establisged project
<SiFuh>
Nah, they have gone off the beaten path and getting lost in their own hubris. Best to just depart from them completely
<SiFuh>
It's seriously a waste of time dealing with them. Nothing gets done in a timely manner and they seem to have no interest at all in what the users actually want.
<ppetrov^>
so, you will be doing the new distro from scratch?
<ppetrov^>
not relying on CRUX at all?
<SiFuh>
No, we will be using CRUX itself. Just we will clean up the entire system. And I think ukky and emmett1 will have a different ISO building script
<SiFuh>
And as far as we have discussed it will be version 3.8 we release and current will be like 3.8.1 and so on.
<SiFuh>
Or 3.8-current
<SiFuh>
Another idea I have but haven't mentioned it yet. So first is here. To actually build the modular kernel and have it on the ISO that a person can install without having to worry about compiling it.
<ppetrov^>
finally
<SiFuh>
But still deciding whether or not it is a good idea to have it as actual port for those who just couldn't be bothered building it and would rather just install it.
<ppetrov^>
hm
<ppetrov^>
actually I like the kernel being outside the system
<SiFuh>
Two options basically. You can do the port install of the kernel, or you can build your own.
<ppetrov^>
the package system
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: I haven't given it enough thought to be honest. Just some ideas tossing around in my head
<ppetrov^>
or make it into a "specially" named port, that is installed only once after installation of the system
<SiFuh>
And naturally it would need approval from everyone. Also we still have the list of laws to right. I think it should be called a Constitution
<SiFuh>
Also emmett1 provided a new installer, I think he said it doesn't run on dialog anymore.
<SiFuh>
We also have the old OpenBSD installer that someone made for CRUX years back.
<SiFuh>
We still haven't even come up with a name to be honest. Crucial seemed to be the way to go but remiliascarlet was saying it is the brand for some RAM
<ppetrov^>
heh
<ppetrov^>
Cruxial
<ppetrov^>
will farkuhar continue his conntribution to CRUX's ports?
<SiFuh>
Probably.
<SiFuh>
Nothing stopping anyone from assisting both sides
<ppetrov^>
and plans to include a full featured DE? such as r0ni's xfce
<SiFuh>
No
<SiFuh>
HAHA
<SiFuh>
The idea is we have core opt and xorg only. That will keep it small enough for it to be maintained properly.
<ppetrov^>
contrib?
<ppetrov^>
so, even smaller port collection than CRUX
<ppetrov^>
will it be CRUX-compatible?
<SiFuh>
For contrib, the idea is that this is done by the users. And I want contrib but haven't discussed it to be in /usr/local however they must use /etc and /usr/local/etc
<ppetrov^>
like in OpenBSD
<ppetrov^>
have the main system separated
<ppetrov^>
aldo, will user's own ports install to /usr/local?
<SiFuh>
Yes basically. Per's linux was suppose to be based off of BSD anyway
<SiFuh>
Users can do what they want. But I think anything not Cruxial related must be in /usr/local so it doesn't affect the main system.
<ppetrov^>
write guidelines for packaging
<SiFuh>
And it can be on a separate partition that means the system can still function well without even needing local. And I think it was dlcusa mentioned that we need /bin and /sbin as static so it can be used during rescue like the old days.
<SiFuh>
Well prt-get and pkgutils will need to be modified to make sure /usr/local is used for contrib packages
<SiFuh>
Like sanity checking or something.
<ppetrov^>
you will have static bins in /bin and /sbin?
<ppetrov^>
does any distro do that, still?
<SiFuh>
Yes, this is how it was suppose to be when your system needs rescue. You can't rely on other stuff if those drives are not mounted.
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: Anyway there is a think-tank team here. So in the end, we will just make it the best we can.
<ppetrov^>
do you think, you guys, will have time for all this?
<ppetrov^>
btw, do you know, what's the primary occupation of CRUX's core team members?
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: We have more guys than CRUX :-)
<SiFuh>
And most of our guys are insanely competant.
<SiFuh>
Beerman was maybe still is a student
<SiFuh>
jaeger I think works for an IT company in Oklahoma
<SiFuh>
jue, no idea
<SiFuh>
Romster got destroyed by the vaccine but he was working in IT at a print shop or something?
<ppetrov^>
of course he did
<SiFuh>
He had complications before, but after it affecting him greatly
<ppetrov^>
sure
<ppetrov^>
what does beerman study?
<SiFuh>
Yeah, sad
<SiFuh>
I liked Romster. Great bloke from Australia. Worked very hard. I don't know what Beerman was studying. I think it was IT related.
<SiFuh>
I'd say most of contrib was due to Romster
<SiFuh>
And after he left for medical reasons, Beerman decided to do a mass culling of the repos and dumped a lot of Romster's stuff because Beerman never could keep up with the Romster work load.
<SiFuh>
I'd say Romster was a force to be reckoned with and no one in CRUX's history was able to peform as well as Romster had.
<SiFuh>
I washed the driveway and the hose exploded and wet the kitchen. Then I washed her car. Then when I am packing up she starts to clean the floor. I told her to stop cleaning the floor because I haven't finished. This is because when I wind up the hose water will go everywhere. So she turned into an angry beast and stormed off.
<SiFuh>
I was laughing, women are weird.
<zorz>
women are speacial species
<SiFuh>
She is always in the way.
<SiFuh>
I am about to leave the house and she steps in front of me and sits down in the doorway to play with the dog. Like come on! Get out of my way.
<SiFuh>
I don't know, but I do know if you did it, it probably won't work :-P
<SiFuh>
Hahaha
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: This week I plan to work on the binary rc in C with some modifications that ukky provided.
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: And I'd like farkuhar to have a look at my script to see if he can make it so that rc-colors is only there for colors and not have two non-color options which I have. One inside of rc and one inside of rc.functions.
<ppetrov^>
ask farkuhar to fix pkg-get
<SiFuh>
I'd like the non-colour version in rc and the colour version in rc.functions.
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: Sure he will if he knows what needs to be fixed. I actually like his code. It is quite clean and much simpler.
<ppetrov^>
he knows
<SiFuh>
And I don't know shit about grub, so that is going to have to be left to the others to work out.
<ppetrov^>
when displaying dependencies, the [ ], [i] boxes are gone
<SiFuh>
I think Aunt Sally needs country music.
<SiFuh>
Bit of Erich Church should satisify her desires
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<zorz>
[zorz@vbox ~]$ doas dmesg | grep microcode
<zorz>
doas (zorz@vbox) password:
<zorz>
[ 0.454556] microcode: Current revision: 0x0a500011
<zorz>
[ 0.454558] microcode: Updated early from: 0x0a50000c
<zorz>
SUCCESS!
<zorz>
:P
<zorz>
SiFuh: it's going to work :P
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<SiFuh>
I think we need a second dog
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<farkuhar>
ppetrov^: It's a pity to see a knowledgeable userbase not being listened to, by the team that has ownership of the official domain name. The new distro will have a lot less visibility in the first few years of establishing its web presence.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Don't worry, I will explain it to Distrowatch.
<SiFuh>
I will tell them what is happening and what to write. That's already covered.
<SiFuh>
I will tell them it isn't a fork of CRUX but rather CRUX itself be diverted towards the path it should be on.
<farkuhar>
Speaking of domain names, some of the best documentation on Plan9 can be found at cat-v.org, which recalls another incident where devs failed to respect modularity and separation of concerns. As told by the Plan9 folks, it was a mistake to introduce the -v flag to /bin/cat rather than writing a separate standalone program.
<SiFuh>
Yeah I saw that.
<SiFuh>
Thought it was a bit strange they were against the flag. But at the same time, I did understand why
<farkuhar>
To preserve the parallelism, we could register a domain name like rc-printf.org and use it to advocate for the crux-ial fork.
<zorz>
no matter what ... I am ALL IN for glibc :P
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: There will be no hyphen in Cruxial if this name is chosen.
<SiFuh>
zorz: It's compulsary. There will be a GLIBC version
<zorz>
GLIBC with GCC,
<zorz>
and tcc
<zorz>
farkuhar: find stenur :P
<SiFuh>
I don't think stenur is going to join us. But I can try since I am on a friendship basis with him.
<SiFuh>
Stood up for him many times.
<SiFuh>
His English is terrible but he is still a great guy.
<SiFuh>
Didn't deserve the beerman treatment.
<zorz>
beerman's mentality does not feet to crux.
<zorz>
beerman he should join arch
<zorz>
basically CRUX itself does not feet in CRUX :P
<ukky>
remiliascarlet: agree, Linux, nor GNU, never followed Unix philosophy. Furthermore, GNU explicitly declares they will never follow Unix philosophy.
<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: Went to a Chinese restaurant and it was basically meat in sugar and meat in sugar and soy. When I asked them how diabetics can handle eating here they said "It's good, you know, have sugar once in a while" Fucking hell.....
<SiFuh>
I ended up eating only vegetarian because fuck that shit..
<SiFuh>
ukky: What do you think of Cruxial?
<SiFuh>
I kind of like CRUX Identity but that is pushing towards Bourne. Hahaha and two words might be a bit, you know, bloated
<SiFuh>
I'd like to start working on the glibc version but I'd prefer to wait to see what dlcusa has done, and then we can guide him to what we want and then using his system create the glibc version and the multi lib.
<SiFuh>
So tomorrow my plan is to work on rc.c and implement the farkuhar and ukky's mods.
<SiFuh>
And a binary rc is NOT going to be the default choice. It will be an addition. The farkuhar/SiFuh rc bash script will be the important one.
<SiFuh>
addition/replacement
<ukky>
SiFuh: just a note, you could use simple numbers for 3.8-current, like 3.99.23. Easier to compare/handle in scripts and binary programs. This comes from NetBSD.
<ukky>
99 would designate 'current'
<SiFuh>
We could, but we are not there yet. First is to create a working ISO and a proper rc bash script. Move some things around. Once the ISO is ready, we can definitely figure out how to do the versioning.
<SiFuh>
Interesting that netbsd uses that and OpenBSD uses -current.
<ukky>
SiFuh: kernel should not have a port. It should be up to the user which kernel to build and how. We could just provide guidance how to do it. This is Crux.
<ukky>
SiFuh: sorry if I do not respond promtly, I have backlog of messages to read.
<SiFuh>
ukky: I don't agree. I think there should be a stable port of a fully modular kernel that the people who don't want to waste time can install. But remove if they go custom.
<SiFuh>
It would require a handbook entry to explain it though.
<SiFuh>
It will be released every 6 months. That is all. And it will not be priority or important.
<SiFuh>
CRUX can still operate the same, but we just provide another alternative.
<SiFuh>
It is not meant to replace the original CRUX way.
<ppetrov^>
how about "Cruxy"
<ppetrov^>
Cruxology
<ppetrov^>
Cruxalaxy
<ppetrov^>
:P
<ppetrov^>
Cruxadelic
<ppetrov^>
no, wait! CruxWare
<ppetrov^>
:P
<ppetrov^>
since your focus is on RC, wny not RCUX
<SiFuh>
Fuck off, that is gay. Cruxy.
<ppetrov^>
Crux off
<SiFuh>
Cruxology could work.
<ppetrov^>
The Cruxinator
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: I think you should stop. Sounds like you are naming a pet for your daughter. Hahahaha
<ppetrov^>
jeez, i am just getting started
<SiFuh>
Give us some cool shit and don't blaspheme Jesus' name
<ppetrov^>
name it SiFuX and that's it
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: That was done in the year 2002 when I made my own distro
<SiFuh>
Actually it was SiFunix
<ukky>
SiFuh: imho, contrib should go into /usr/contrib/, and not /usr/local. But that would require changing toolchain to add include and library search paths in /usr/contrib.
<ppetrov^>
ukky, isn't /usr/local designated exactly for this?
<SiFuh>
ukky: So you create a new directory for local level user modified ports that should be in local?
<ppetrov^>
Cruxistency
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: I like that one
<ppetrov^>
Cruxistence
<SiFuh>
No
<ppetrov^>
Cruximity
<SiFuh>
...
<ppetrov^>
Cruxaholic
<ppetrov^>
:P
<SiFuh>
BeCRUX
<ppetrov^>
OpenCRUX
<ppetrov^>
GreeCRUX
<ppetrov^>
*FreeCRUX
<ppetrov^>
NetCRUX
<ppetrov^>
Venomous CRUX
<SiFuh>
Fuck that venomous this
<SiFuh>
OG-CRUX CRUX-OG
<ppetrov^>
:D
<ppetrov^>
how about... ZORZUX
<ppetrov^>
Farcruxar
<SiFuh>
I'd like to see everyone seriously think of a name
<SiFuh>
None of this bullshit crap.
<ppetrov^>
heh
<ppetrov^>
CRAP
<SiFuh>
This name I actually like
<SiFuh>
I thought of it too
<ppetrov^>
CRAX
<SiFuh>
No CRAP Linux
<ppetrov^>
CRAPPIX
<ppetrov^>
GNU/CRAP
<SiFuh>
Haahahahahaha
<SiFuh>
Osas GNU/CRAP Linux
<ppetrov^>
CRAFT Linux
<SiFuh>
Redux
<SiFuh>
Reform
<SiFuh>
Retool
<ppetrov^>
Remiliascarlet
<ppetrov^>
REMIX
<SiFuh>
Ahhh you know we all like her
<ppetrov^>
Reflux
<ppetrov^>
ReCRUX
<ppetrov^>
CAVE Linux
<SiFuh>
We can go spelunking!
<SiFuh>
You ever been spelunking ppetrov^ ?
<SiFuh>
If you ever want to get over the fear of being buried alive, spelunking is awesome
<ukky>
I own arixar domain name, if you want I might consider giving it away to the team.
<SiFuh>
What does it mean?
<SiFuh>
I have yenjie.net as a domain.
<ppetrov^>
just call it Petrov Linux
<ppetrov^>
thank me later
<SiFuh>
Hmmm
<ukky>
SiFuh: it has no meaning, I invented that name when I registered it.
<ppetrov^>
SiFuh, my nickname reminds you of a gun, so GUN GNU/Linux?
<SiFuh>
ukky: Per Linux
<SiFuh>
Per-Crux
<ukky>
SiFuh: No gods for me. It's a team effort.
<ppetrov^>
Cruxper
<SiFuh>
ukky: Yes I am trying to explain to emmett1 there is no dev team or maintainers just a user base with absolute authority.
<SiFuh>
Anyone who thinks they are superior will be stripped of their maintainership
<ppetrov^>
call it Beerman Linux
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: I said that already
<ppetrov^>
OLUT Linux
<SiFuh>
HEHEHE
<SiFuh>
Olutmies Linux
<ppetrov^>
you'll attract the finnish userbase
<ppetrov^>
öl linux
<ukky>
SiFuh: I like your idea not forcing binary rc as the only choice. imho, every component in the distro has to be replaceable.
<ppetrov^>
how about Ö linux, ö means island in swedish
<SiFuh>
ukky: Yes, never one had I the intention to replace the original bash rc except maybe in POSIX sh.
<SiFuh>
emmett1: “A distro from user, to users” the tagline? ;D <-- ukky, farkuhar, zorz_. ppetrov^, remiliascarlet
<SiFuh>
I prefer a distro for the users, by the users
<ukky>
ppetrov^: imho, /usr/local should be only used by propriatory software, or locally designed software. Contrib should be considered 3rd party SW, with well known separate install path.
<SiFuh>
ukky: /opt for that shit.
<ukky>
SiFuh: or /contrib, or /usr/contrib
<SiFuh>
All binaries and proprietary should be in /opt
<SiFuh>
Contrib is not and should be under /usr/local
<ukky>
SiFuh: I do not agree
<SiFuh>
ukky: Yeah but you are creating a new directory that isn't there since /usr/local exists for local user created stuff.
<SiFuh>
/opt is optional and the least important.
<ukky>
SiFuh: Contrib is _not_ user-created stuff.
<SiFuh>
You shove all your junk into /opt
<SiFuh>
ukky: So contrib magically appears by aliens?
<ukky>
My point is that /usr/local is locally created, and might not be available anywhere else.
<SiFuh>
I still don't see your point
<ukky>
Contrib would be 3rd party SW.
<SiFuh>
No it is local user contributed software
<SiFuh>
3rd part goes to /opt and binaries included.
<ukky>
SiFuh: if you write a script to auto-convert avi-video into mkv-video, you would place it into /usr/local/bin. Only you have that script. That's my point.
<SiFuh>
No. I put it in ~/bin/
<SiFuh>
In my case it is ~/.bin/
<ukky>
Contrib might go into /opt, or any other non-system directory, except for /usr/local.
<farkuhar>
As long as we're considering NetBSD as an example to follow with respect to numbering releases, why not also borrow their /usr/pkg prefix?
<SiFuh>
No I 100% disagree with you
<SiFuh>
Optional is /opt
<ukky>
You should not put system-wide binaries into $HOME
<SiFuh>
Local shit created by local users is under /usr/local
<SiFuh>
And contrib will not be maintained by any of us. It will be user provided contributions
<ukky>
'Contrib' is not local SW created by local user.
<SiFuh>
We are not doing contrib. It is too much for anyone to handle
<SiFuh>
Leave it to the users.
<ppetrov^>
if none of you will maintain a repo "contrib", then why are you arguing where software from "contrib" should go? leave it to the user
<SiFuh>
We focuse on core, opt and xorg.
<ukky>
I agree with that. But 'Contrib' is not 'local' SW
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: I plan to have contrib maintained by EVERYONE.
<SiFuh>
And I disagree with creating a new directory when local is there for that purpose.
<ukky>
'Contrib' should have predefined placeholder for any port in contrib
<SiFuh>
No
<ppetrov^>
is there a distro that does that?
<SiFuh>
No
<ukky>
SiFuh: well, I expressed my POV, you do what you like.
<SiFuh>
I want to understand ukky's reasoning for it but he has yet to provide a good answer.
<SiFuh>
Local exists and is designed for what we are talking about. But you want a new directory created for it?
<SiFuh>
It doesn't make any sense
<SiFuh>
And /opt was designed for what you are talking about and it exists already
<ukky>
In worst case I would agree to install 'contrib' into /opt. But /usr/local is bad path for 'contrib'
<farkuhar>
It's debatable whether /usr/local was *designed* for what we are talking about (a contrib repo that accepts submissions from users scattered throughout the world). The very name 'local' suggests otherwise.
<SiFuh>
ukky: Why?
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: /usr/local/ as far as my knowledge base goes was designed for locally chosed installations that a local user wanted.
<SiFuh>
Which would be basically contrib
<ukky>
SiFuh: I place my own, non-publicly shared programs and scripts into /usr/local. 'contrib' ports are publicly shared, like 'core/opt/xorg'.
<SiFuh>
And /opt was for optional shit that you install when you want something but it is not technically part of your functioning system.
<farkuhar>
Anything that's not in core could also be considered a locally-chosen installation that a local user wanted. I fail to see why the contrib repo deserves its own prefix, but not the xorg or opt repos.
<SiFuh>
ukky: They will be publicly shared but they will not be filtered by us. Which means the user relies on that user who built that port.
<SiFuh>
I don't want any of us bothered with contrib. Thats 100% up to the user who created it.
<SiFuh>
I want us focuses 100% on the distro, core, opt and xorg. Nothing else
<SiFuh>
Everything else is up to the users
<farkuhar>
*Everything* is up to the users, according to the proposed constitution. Even a core port can be replaced, as GazL did after seeing /etc/rc polluting the environment with colour variables.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Yes. we will not have a dev or maintainer team. We will have a group of people as talented as we are to inspect, clean, and produce quality shit.
<SiFuh>
And if a user wants something we need to ask everyone if they agree and compare it to the constitution
<farkuhar>
Too bad GazL is too busy with real life to do more than drop a one-liner into #crux. I suggested he register for a Gitea account and post his comments in a more durable forum, but he declined.
<SiFuh>
That way stay on the same path and not deviate as CRUX has done.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: I declined too.
<SiFuh>
But he didn't get an ear chwed off my beerman for not registering to a fucking stupid account.
<ukky>
imho, core/opt/xorg should have separate db from contrib
<SiFuh>
ukky: We have no plan to introduce contrib at all
<SiFuh>
It's user separated by default.
<SiFuh>
When you do a CRUX install from the ISO there is no contrib right? I don't have any plans for contrib to exist except by the users themselves
<farkuhar>
As ppetrov^ said, if we're leaving contrib to the user, why even have the debate over where the software should be installed in the filesystem? Let the user choose whether they want /opt or /usr/local or /usr/pkg or something else.
<SiFuh>
That should not be our job. It is user contributed. Therefore the users are responsible for contrib.
<SiFuh>
Well farkuhar I don't want their shit in my / or /usr
<SiFuh>
And I don't see the point of magically creating a new directory outside of the directory structure.
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: not wanting their shit in your / or /usr; that's why we recommend higher scrutiny for ports installed from a repo that EVERYONE contributes to.
<SiFuh>
When as ppetrov^ and I both said /usr/local exists for that exact purpose
<ukky>
Then port tools should allow to touch core DB for contrib ports
<SiFuh>
ukky: Actually I think you are right on that one. It should be a separate db
<SiFuh>
And I am sure farkuhar with his skills can make it it editable as a variable to put contrib ports in /usr/local or /usr/contrib
<ppetrov^>
farkuhar, will you continue your contribution t CRUX?
<ppetrov^>
I need Inkscape...
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: Me too. I use it for design stuff that needs laser cutting
<farkuhar>
I keep bringing up NetBSD and the pkgsrc example. I've never tried it, but supposedly you can use pkgsrc to maintain a parallel installation of software, not interfering at all with the database that the host distro maintains.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Heh, look CRUX as in /core (Static), /opt and /xorg needs to be solely and a separate from the rest of the system.
<SiFuh>
Everything else shove it where you want.
<farkuhar>
ppetrov^: if they don't eject me the way they did to stenur, then yes I'll continue maintaining the handful of ports they've entrusted to me.
<SiFuh>
Just do not touch / and /usr
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: Told you
<ppetrov^>
farkuhar, thanks.
<ppetrov^>
you sure did, SiFuh
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: As I said, nothing wrong with us working both sides.
<SiFuh>
Besides we can be beneficial to both sides anyway
<ppetrov^>
SiFuh, it's a waste of time, efforts and energy
<SiFuh>
No that is dealing with them
<ppetrov^>
heh
<ppetrov^>
maybe you guys should've done a video conference and debated
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: You watch what happens. I gurantee you CRUX will die
<SiFuh>
And they will come back to ourside
<ppetrov^>
OK
<ppetrov^>
heh
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: Any chance they would hand over the crux.nu domain and start regarding themselves as the fork? Their actions deviated from the OG path, why should the burden of setting up a new host and web presence be on us?
<ppetrov^>
what is OG?
<ppetrov^>
original goal?
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: No I don't think they well but it will die. Because they went off path. Users didn't want this.
<SiFuh>
Original Gangster
<ppetrov^>
heh
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: Which tecnichally I am :-P
<ukky>
When I considering my own distro, I was hoping to create base core install and use pkgsrc for everything else, in /usr/pkg.
<ukky>
s/I considering/I has been considering/
<ppetrov^>
ukky, you like custom paths, don't you
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: I have a funny thought for you. You saw those distro maps on wiki where they diverge into something new? I bet what happens is that CRUX re-merges with us in the future which will be a first.
<ppetrov^>
could be
<ukky>
ppetrov^: Crux did not provide customization options I need, so I had plans to change that.
<SiFuh>
ukky: We can introduce that
<ppetrov^>
maybe add a line in rc.conf about PATH, e.g. PATH=(/usr/contrib /usr/pkg)
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: ukky: When we do our own, there is so much more we can introduce that would otherwise be rejected.
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: No but understood
<ukky>
SiFuh: if you use pkgsrc, you can compeletly drop the need for contrib, as pkgsrc has plenty of SW.
<SiFuh>
Should be in pkgmk
<SiFuh>
ukky: I am not a NETBSD guy
<SiFuh>
ukky: ppetrov^: Actually I want all compilation tools in a separate repo but I doub that will happen. Too many opposition. Mostly because CRUX is a source based distro.
<SiFuh>
I personally don't think they should be in core because if I build the perfect server, I won't need this stuff anymore.
<farkuhar>
Speaking of compilation tools, gimp after the 2.10.38 -> 3.0.0 update stopped providing an autotools configure script. Now they force their users to run `meson setup` to compile gimp.
<ukky>
SiFuh: pkgsrc is not NetBSD-only. Packages in pkgsrc are portable to BSD/Linux/macOS/etc.
<farkuhar>
In researching ppetrov^s #38 I was hoping to have ./configure as a fallback option for building gimp, but unfortunately it was nowhere to be found.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Hmm
<SiFuh>
ukky: emmett1 said an important thing. Follow the original Linux/Unix standards. Do not go beyond it.
<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: but that was for crucial not cruxial
<ppetrov^>
because the RAM name
<SiFuh>
ukky: farkuhar: dlcusa: zorz_: cruxial?
<ppetrov^>
she has a point
<SiFuh>
emmett1 said he has no issue with it
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: Of course. She is a valued member of this team.
<ppetrov^>
why not "krux", the swedish word
<ppetrov^>
and you've got a swede here to advise
<SiFuh>
With no NLS
<SiFuh>
Great.
<ppetrov^>
heh
<ppetrov^>
k, you havea point, too
<SiFuh>
HAHAHA I was being sarcastic
<ppetrov^>
i am using the thesausrus for the word CRUX
<ppetrov^>
ankh
<ppetrov^>
chi
<ppetrov^>
crisscross
<ppetrov^>
cross
<ppetrov^>
cruxifix
<ppetrov^>
(too brutal)
<ppetrov^>
heh, there's "swastika"
<ppetrov^>
i guess not very popular since 1945
<ppetrov^>
secant
<ppetrov^>
ok, I stop
<SiFuh>
I like the "swastika" It is an ancient symbol
<ppetrov^>
we all know, it used to mean sth good, but tyere had to be _that_ guy to ruin it
<SiFuh>
Just become some fake jews fags made it illegal doesn't mean it is bad.
<ppetrov^>
go ahead, call it Swastika Linux
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: It is use here all the time. In Asia you find it everywhere. Left and right.
<ppetrov^>
SiFuh, so I've heard and seen on maps
<SiFuh>
I can take you down the road to the Hindu temple and show you
<SiFuh>
It is everywhere here.
<ppetrov^>
i believe you
<ukky>
I have no opinion on the name. Rux Linux comes to mind. Somilar to 'Rock Linux', now extinct
<SiFuh>
But some cunts made it evil and said it was evil so now it is banned?
<SiFuh>
That's just fucking stupid.
<ukky>
s/somilar/similar
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: Get your shit together and stop telling people what you don't like and making a law against it. That is cowardess
<SiFuh>
Not you ppetrov^. Just them...
<ppetrov^>
hahahahah....
<SiFuh>
ukky: I don't like run linux. It sounds weird
<ppetrov^>
i know, I have not gone to anyone tell them what i like or dislike
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: I can tell you what I dislike. Fake or long nails. Feet and hands. You have no idea about how to live and work. You are a slave driver. Expect everyone do shit for you.
<ppetrov^>
emm,,... first two sentences I follow, the reast I don't get, is this addressed to me specifically?
<SiFuh>
Funny how all evil people have them but the good people don't yet everywhere here they grow them long.
<SiFuh>
No not you ppetrov^
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: All the bad guys in moves have long nails. They are evil people. But you walk around and see people who are not evil (Supposedly) with long nails. Like it is fashion or something. But it is obvious they don't do jack shit. They are lazy and rely on everyone else.
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: This makes sense?
<SiFuh>
moves/movies
<ppetrov^>
heh
<ppetrov^>
as a person who worked in the wet-lab for nearly 20 years, seeing someone with long nails was very frustrating
<SiFuh>
Wet lab = blood right?
<ppetrov^>
basically, you can't work properly, you know, handling pipettes, even putting rubber gloves on
<ppetrov^>
SiFuh, no
<SiFuh>
I worked wet work but it involved blood
<ppetrov^>
wet-lab = "real lab", not bioinformatics and computer shit
<ppetrov^>
no, no
<SiFuh>
Hmm
<SiFuh>
I worked in emergency for many years. So when we'd say wet work it meant you are going to be covered in blood
<ppetrov^>
bleh
<SiFuh>
We used recipricol saws to cut through bones. A wet job.
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: I was in emergency serive and emergency rescue for over 20 years.
<SiFuh>
Wet always meant messy and blood
<SiFuh>
We'd tranq the person even though it wasn't a tranquelizer and saw off their limbs to pull them out of the car wreck.
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: I guess you never knew I was in emergency service.
<ppetrov^>
nope
<SiFuh>
I'm just some dum CRUX guy with anit-covid injection responses
<SiFuh>
dumb*
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: Yeah I was in emergency for almost 20 years.
<SiFuh>
I go camping with the KKM group here (Like the US CDC) they love me because they know everyone is safe.
<SiFuh>
As much as it disgusts me I am paramedic trained
<ppetrov^>
SiFuh, i have not brough up the vaccination and convid stuff
<SiFuh>
I have because it was wrongl
<ppetrov^>
but yes, it's a pity a guy who is supposedly a trained paramedic, to think as you do about covid and the vaccines. That's all I haveto say and I will not take this conversation any further.
<SiFuh>
It was a death sentence and I was aware of what mRNA vaicines do to the human body as far back as 2015. I even joked to the wife. "Bet they use mRNA" and it happened!
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: It is adath sentence.
<SiFuh>
a death*
<ppetrov^>
whatever, man
<SiFuh>
I am telling the truth dude
<SiFuh>
Actuallu on eof the ones we complained about back in the day was the pasteurized milk.
<ppetrov^>
what about pasteurized milk?
<SiFuh>
emmett1 asked who is going to to host the repo
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: another story, but you are not ready for the truth about it.
<SiFuh>
You still stuck on the lie that COVID injections are safe even though it already was proved a scam.
<farkuhar>
Wiki article on FHS says that /usr/local is "specific to this host". But the contrib repo is envisioned as populated by submissions from everybody? Somehow those two descriptions don't seem aligned.
<ukky>
farkuhar: that's my point
<SiFuh>
Heh it answered itself
<SiFuh>
emmett1 says farkuhar should host the github, gitlab
<ppetrov^>
aha, ok... pasteurized milk is probably bad for you, eh? that's the truth?
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: I don't know but why would neuking everything be good for you?
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: You are mostly life from bacteria. You want to kill lacoto baccisulls?
<ppetrov^>
heh... because there's other stuff the better not be there
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: I think you need to reivew and study more. Because some thing the USDA kills it actually good for us.
<ppetrov^>
ok, i'll take your advice to heart and study more. Thank you
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: I like acideoholous yogurt/
<farkuhar>
I'm recalling that SiFuh took his BMX out for a spin. And the X in BMX stands for "cross" too.
<SiFuh>
Lactobacillus Acidophilus*
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: You are reaching. Let
<SiFuh>
Let's stick to the new CRUX
<SiFuh>
I have to go offline
<SiFuh>
My fingers are not functioning as they should
<SiFuh>
Too much exercise
<SiFuh>
Making my hands fatter and stronger so when I meet lavaball I cna punch him in the face.
<SiFuh>
And say, this is for remiliascarlet!
<farkuhar>
Yeah, BM-CRUX is probably a stupid name anyway. Better to repurpose an acronym that doesn't need explanation, like CRUX-OG. (Oh wait, ppetrov^ needed us to explain that one to him.)
<SiFuh>
cruxial ?
<ppetrov^>
even if it's "Crucial" like the word, I don't think it would be a problem
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: I like CRUX Legacy
<ppetrov^>
I like Crucial more
<SiFuh>
I am with ppetrov^ On this one.
<SiFuh>
But with an X
<ppetrov^>
heh
<ppetrov^>
Xrucial?
<SiFuh>
Joker
<ppetrov^>
Joxer
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: You know I worked in labs dressed in plastic an rubber and had my naked flesh vaccumed right?
<ppetrov^>
No SiFuh , I did not know that
<SiFuh>
It's fucking horrible because ome dude not a chick was wathcing
<ukky>
xcrux: original Crux, eX Crux, eXcellent Crux
<ppetrov^>
excrux
<ppetrov^>
xrux
<ppetrov^>
ups, i said i was gonna stop
<farkuhar>
ukky: C A Exton already releases an ISO called CruxEx. Look for his announcements on the mailing list, shortly after each official CRUX release.
<ppetrov^>
will you ask him to join?
<SiFuh>
I am going to sleep. Back later.
<SiFuh>
I think CRUX Ex is a bad name because we are not CRUX ex but true Crux
<ukky>
farkuhar: not on the mailing lists. And he has to be God to put his name in the distro name (Ex from Exton).
<farkuhar>
So lavaball deserves a punch in the face, but olutmies' offenses merit a response with firearms? https://i.imgflip.com/9tbiv5.jpg Is this an okay interpretation of "let the punishment fit the crime"?
<ukky>
SiFuh: I mentioned more than a few times that /usr/local is only for local stuff
ppetrov^ has joined #crux-social
<farkuhar>
ukky: OpenBSD appears to take a different approach. They fill up /usr/local with software that CRUX users would find in opt or contrib.
<farkuhar>
Here's a sampling of what I found in /usr/local/bin on an OpenBSD 7.7 instance: bash, brotli, bsdtar, bzcat, dbus-run-session, dialog, elinks, elm, irssi, lynx, mutt, p11-kit, pinentry, sudo, unxz, vim, w3m, wget, xmlcatalog, zstd.
<farkuhar>
So if that's the precedent SiFuh is familiar with, it would explain why he's okay with /usr/local as the place for contrib ports to be installed.
<ukky>
farkuhar: dumping everything (non-core) in /usr/local is done to minimize maintenance/development. The same way majority of Linux distros dump all binaries in /usr/bin. imho, it is wrong.
<ppetrov^>
ukky, show us a distro that does what you suggest
<ppetrov^>
i am just curtious to see an example of how it's done
<ukky>
You have to take my opinion with grain of salt and follow what logic tells you. My POV with regard of how things should be implemented on computers might not be a mainstream ideas, but a man may have dreams.
<ukky>
ppetrov^: NetBSD
<ukky>
ppetrov^: In NetBSD, non-core packages are installed into /usr/pkg, with separate database of installed packages. So, it has /usr/pkg/{bin,etc,include,lib,sbin,share}
<ukky>
Basically, you can just delete /usr/pkg and core system will still be functional.
<ppetrov^>
cool
<ukky>
When distro reserves /usr/local to 3rd party SW, you cannot just delete it, as it may contain scripts/programs that local admin created. Unless you add /usr/truelocal/ directory for actually host-only stuff.
<farkuhar>
We can quibble with the choices that OpenBSD made for its directory structure; in fact I tend to think they should have left /usr/local alone, and selected a different prefix for the stuff you can install with ports or pkg_add. But by creating a precedent, they made it possible for us to be having the current debate over where contrib ports should go.
<ukky>
farkuhar: the fact that OpenBSD reserves /usr/local for non-core packages explains why SiFuh puts his system-wide scripts in $HOME.
<farkuhar>
btw, the sample contents of /usr/local/bin that I posted above was from a pubnix system where I happen to have shell access. It's been at least five years since I last maintained a bare-metal installation of OpenBSD on any of my machines.
SiFuh_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
SiFuh_ has joined #crux-social
<SiFuh>
ukky: No it doesn't
<SiFuh>
I don't have any system wide scripts in $HOME
<SiFuh>
ukky: Check this shit out. Wife is angry at me
<ukky>
SiFuh: what did you do wrong this time?
<SiFuh>
ukky: So her father is eating McDonald's crap and takes a piece of meat and walks over and hands it to Aunt Sally. I said very loudly, "That better not be McDonald's that you are feeding her" He looks at me and opens the gate and shoves it into Aunt Sally's mouth.
<SiFuh>
So the wife asks the father what he fed her. He said it wasn't McDonald's it was a snack. I said to the wife "Your own father is lying to you? 1) why does he have snacks? We took them all from him because he destroyed her diet and 2) if it was a snack why was it 2 inches long, 1 inch wide and floppy?"
<SiFuh>
She said "I think we need to padlock the gate" I said I will and did now she is angry that the gate is padlocked.
<SiFuh>
Women
<SiFuh>
I told her brother, you make sure no one feeds her and I will remove the padlock. If I see anyone feeding her the padlock comes back.
<ukky>
there should some other reason
<SiFuh>
Yesterday the dog vomited. It is why I cleaned the driveway. I don't even know what those chunks were. Looked like potatoe
<SiFuh>
ukky: I have been shouting at them for over 6 months. Since last years STOP FEEDING THE FSCKING DOG. And they lie to us saying they don't whilst I have stood there watching it happen. Fucking hell!
<SiFuh>
What kind of father LIES to his daughter?
<SiFuh>
Two days ago her father drowned my Mango trees with water. I told the wife to tell him to not do it. Yesterday he said "I never water them" WHAT???????????????
<SiFuh>
I am fscking standing there watching him and he says he doesn't do it
<ukky>
probably dementia
<SiFuh>
No they are Chinese
<SiFuh>
Lying is ingrained into them
<SiFuh>
Cousins feeding the dog Chocolate. I told the wife that the cousins are feeding the dog chocolate and she says "No they aren't" I said "Okay fine. Shovel is in your car, you dig the fscking hole" So two days later she asks them if they fed chocolate to the dog and they said "No... Never" So they wife comes back and says "You are wrong. They said they never fed her chocolate" Hmmmm... Okay, I stood
<SiFuh>
there observing it and I am wrong. They are fucking liars!
<SiFuh>
ukky: I really can't understand why they have to lie all the time.
<SiFuh>
You did wrong, okay, admit it and accept it. But no, they have to make a fucking lie up
<ukky>
Some people never admit own mistakes
<SiFuh>
ukky: I find it funny they tell you what you can and can't feed a dog because of what is in it, yet humans still eat it.
<SiFuh>
ukky: I am surrounded by beermen!!!!!!
<SiFuh>
hahahaha
<ukky>
haha
<SiFuh>
So padlock stays
<ukky>
I second that
<SiFuh>
THis will disrupt their life a lot because they use my land for drying clothes and steal my water
<SiFuh>
Secondly the dog loves the brother and the nephew and the father and they can't come over now.
<ukky>
That's not your problem. I have rules, that's it.
<SiFuh>
I have to program it into their heads. YOU do not feed our dog.
<SiFuh>
And I think to get a second dog.
<SiFuh>
So Aunt Sally has company
<SiFuh>
I will call it Worzel Gummidge
<SiFuh>
Worzel Gummidge
<SiFuh>
And Aunt Sally
<SiFuh>
Hahaha
<ukky>
Worzel should enough haha
<SiFuh>
ukky: Actually I wanted to name Aunt Sally Worzel Gummidge but then realised she was a girl. So I ended up calling her Aunt Sally.
<SiFuh>
it's from a British TV series.
<SiFuh>
Just type in Aunt Sally and Worzel Gummidge and you will see what I mean.
<SiFuh>
ukky: They say never give a dog a name more than 1 syllable because they don't understand. That's a load of shit.
<SiFuh>
You can shout Aunt and Aunt Sally will look and when she doesn't hear Sally she just goes back to what she is doing.
<SiFuh>
I have scripts in ~/.bin for me like mounting drives and backing up systems.
<ukky>
One syllable could be more practical for the owner haha
<SiFuh>
ukky: These are not system wide. They are local to only me as I am the admin.
<SiFuh>
ukky: Hehehe
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: You attempt was pretty week :-P
<ukky>
If you always run your scripts manually, ~/.bin should be fine
<SiFuh>
I never have put system wide scripts in my home directory and never intended of making you think that.
<ukky>
My backup script is system-wide, thus it is located in /usr/local/bin
<SiFuh>
Yeah but I don't consider it worthy of being system wide.
<SiFuh>
I run it locally and manually. Hence an email every week to remind me of it
<ukky>
That script runs as root, on schedule, and backs up also remote systems.
<SiFuh>
I can't do that
<SiFuh>
2 weeks ago, I had to mount the backup drive and erase shit. That is why I never have it automated
<SiFuh>
I could assume it was being backed up but maybe miss that the diskspace was dead
<SiFuh>
Something the serious should be watched closely and even though automation could do the job, I'd prefer not to
<SiFuh>
It's my choice.
<ukky>
I get email from backup script whether backup was successful or not
<SiFuh>
Like I said. It is my choice. I take serious matters into my own hands rather than automate it.
<SiFuh>
ukky: Anyways farkuhar and I are the only ones to speak about /usr/contrib?
<SiFuh>
I don't think it will become a thing unless we make a variable.
<SiFuh>
Then some fancy coding from farkuhar
<ukky>
Variable will not work with contrib. You need support for variable paths in .footprint then.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Can you give me a link to the current rc in bash so emmett1 can POSIX SH it?
<SiFuh>
ukky: Yeah it can.
<SiFuh>
ukky: Don't underestimate the skills of farkuhar :-P
<ukky>
SiFuh: he's cool
<SiFuh>
Emmett1 or farkuhar ?
<SiFuh>
I think they both are
<ukky>
SiFuh: never seen work of emmett1, so, I have no idea. I just know he is capable. (venom)
<SiFuh>
ukky: I spent over and hour trying to school emmett1 that we don't plan to have devs or maintainers like he lives in this fatnasy world where you need to have governance
<SiFuh>
ukky: Was teasing him today about how stupid venom was for a name and he said yeah after release I realised it was bloody stupid.
<ukky>
SiFuh: governance is good thing, for as long as user have major vote to override the governor haha
<SiFuh>
No, we have a law that is it. We self govern but DO NOT break the law
<ukky>
s/user/users/
<SiFuh>
No democracy.
<SiFuh>
Let's say farkuhar wants colour and no one else does. What should happen?
<ukky>
The weight of my opinion should be the smallest among Crux users in this channel
<SiFuh>
We introduce it but SEPARATE!
<SiFuh>
I don't think that is the case. Your opinion is held in high regard whether we all or even I agree or not.
<SiFuh>
I disagree, I think it is stupid. I have yet to hear a valid reason worth fighting for.
<SiFuh>
Doesn't make me right
<SiFuh>
But you spoke it and it is in my head and I will try to find a reason why it should be, but I doubt I can.
<ukky>
Any feature request should be judged and considered. If it makes sense, the feature must be implemented. (re: colors)
<SiFuh>
So you need to sell it to us
<SiFuh>
Colours can be implemented but it cannot touch the intial core system. Yes we tweak the core to allow it but in the end without it the system still functions.
<SiFuh>
So printf gets functions like printerror, printconf, printwhatever
<SiFuh>
But it still operates like normal
<SiFuh>
When you introduce colours it overides those functions
<SiFuh>
Check if rc.functions exist then everything changes if it exists
<SiFuh>
If not, script functions like normal.
<SiFuh>
That's fine
<ukky>
I like this idea, even though I do not use sysvinit
<SiFuh>
Also, have you an zorz got a runit yet?
<SiFuh>
Because the plan is to have a working runit as well for those who don't want BSD style scripting.
<ukky>
zorz uses his own version of runit port, I have my own
<SiFuh>
HAHAHAHAHA
<SiFuh>
You don't trust his do you?
<ukky>
I just don't like his way of installing runit.
<SiFuh>
I don't like anything the zorz does.
<ukky>
zorz has his ways. He is fast. haha
<SiFuh>
Well if you want a runit port in the new CRUX then you should prepare it so we can include it
<SiFuh>
zorz_: is messy
<ukky>
I am messy too while developing something, but then comes 'code clean up' stage.
<SiFuh>
Hmmm, I didn't like your code format but it was very clean as well.
<SiFuh>
So no complaints
<ukky>
That's style from work I should follow.
<SiFuh>
So many white spaces
<SiFuh>
Like you are writing a resume or something
<ukky>
In my private code I use hard tabs.
<SiFuh>
I don't know what that means
<ukky>
In both C and shell scripts.
<SiFuh>
I still don't know what that means
<ukky>
vim term
<SiFuh>
We have tabs and spaces.
<SiFuh>
That's it... nothing to do with 'hard' tabs. No logical meaning
<ukky>
Most editors are so smart that they would replace single byte code 0x09 into series of spaces.
<SiFuh>
So in your twisted reply a hard tab is a series of spaces?
<SiFuh>
Hard tabs insert a special tab character, while soft tabs insert a set number of spaces when the tab key is pressed. The choice between them often depends on personal or team preferences for code formatting consistency.
<SiFuh>
WHy couldn't you just say that ukky instead of beating me around a bush?
<ukky>
The opposite. One tab character indents line to position (i*8+1), where i is the number of consecutive tabs.
<SiFuh>
I really don't care about this fancy shit.
<SiFuh>
I will do what I do and to hell with you all stupid language shit.
<ukky>
Personal preferences
<SiFuh>
I gave up after your reply
<SiFuh>
It sounds like garbage
<SiFuh>
You either tab or you space
<SiFuh>
That's it. Don't make up fancy words and shit. I don't care
<SiFuh>
ukky: Should be a law :-P speak real and not beerman the world with acronymns and fancy new phrases
<dlcusa>
crucial.com is a hardware vendor, crucial is an OS.
<ppetrov^>
I agree
<ppetrov^>
and IMHO it wouldn't be a problem
<SiFuh>
crucial or cruxial?
<dlcusa>
Cruxial is not in the dictionary--some people will scratch their heads, and they shouldn't have to.
<zorz>
farkuhar: with current gnupg build i dont get dirmngr plus libassuan essential dependany missing.... any ideas?
<zorz>
who else Maintainer: Tim Biermann
<zorz>
Tim doea not locate keys :P
<zorz>
does*
<ppetrov^>
Cruxial contains "Crux" in its name, while Crucial sounds quite connected but independent at the same time
<ppetrov^>
standalone
<dlcusa>
The CRUX developers are likely to disavow any connection of CRUX to this distro.
<SiFuh>
Why?
<zorz>
dlcusa: i dont know any developer in crux.
<SiFuh>
Hubris?
<zorz>
i know some developemt took place in rc... but not from crux team.
<dlcusa>
Regardless of reasons, it shouldn't matter.
<dlcusa>
If their is in fact any animosity.
<zorz>
name it AMSTEL after the beer :P
<dlcusa>
s/their/there/
<SiFuh>
Well you are all free to give us names
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<zorz>
heh it needs gnutls
<SiFuh>
I built under the name Outlaw but serpente doesn't like that name
<SiFuh>
Amd besides I haven't used cmake or ninja. I am still using configure amd make
<SiFuh>
But I am more intersted in dlcuas's version if he completes it
<dlcusa>
Working (on it)...
<SiFuh>
No hurry dlcusa and I don't want you to hurry
<dlcusa>
But I'm testing emmett1's release.
<SiFuh>
It needs to be clea n and pure
<SiFuh>
dlcusa: emmett1 is a bit of a loose canon and his releases should be taken with extreme caution
<dlcusa>
with your rc files and compiled rc.
<SiFuh>
today I will work more on the rc. Want to introdeuce farkuhar and ukky's mods
<dlcusa>
As may be, it deserves a shakeout.
<SiFuh>
I will take some time off though because I want to patch the tube on BMX
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<SiFuh>
dlcusa: He doesn't boot strap anything.
<SiFuh>
CRUX at least boot straps all of core
<SiFuh>
He says it is stupid but when you bootstrap his stuff it fails
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<zorz>
SiFuh: name it OpenCRUX
<zorz>
hahahaha
<zorz>
yes OpenCRUX should be the name :P
<SiFuh>
Yes I like it
<SiFuh>
Now shut the fuck up. Haha
<zorz>
[23:24:05] -ChanServ(ChanServ@services.libera.chat)- #opencrux is now registered to zorz.
<zorz>
ahhahaha
<zorz>
i give it to you anytime .
<zorz>
irc channel ready.
<zorz>
SiFuh: irc operator/moderator we shall make farkuhar
<zorz>
ahhahahahaha\
<SiFuh>
zorz: You smokin' the weed again?
<zorz>
Netherlands.... coffee shops :P
<zorz>
i took the get-verified-tarball from kernel.org and added lines from 88 to the end https://0x0.st/8wsL.sh
<zorz>
perfection :P
<zorz>
with ucode :P
<zorz>
i just did get-verified-tarball 6.12.29 and new kernel installed.
<zorz>
goin to test 6.12.29
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<farkuhar>
zorz: the pinentry dependency of gnupg does have gtk as a soft dependency, which might be how gnutls sometimes gets linked in. But you're correct, building gnupg on a clean core with only the hard dependencies will not produce dirmngr.
<farkuhar>
The gnupg footprint still contains man-pages for dirmngr(8) and dirmngr-client(1), even though the actual executables are not always built.
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<SiFuh>
farkuhar: You wasting time
<SiFuh>
zorz: is bouncing in and out like a pin ball machine
<zorz>
uname -r
<zorz>
6.12.29
<zorz>
i like this number... it will stay
<farkuhar>
zorz: Compare the output of these two commands: `prt-get fsearch dirmngr` versus `prt-get fsearch --regex "dirmngr.*"`
<farkuhar>
Someone looking for the dirmngr executable exactly will not find any port that promises to provide it, but by widening the scope of the search it becomes possible to identify gnupg as the most likely candidate.
<zorz>
you need to compile gnupg with gnutls
<zorz>
/usr/bin/dirmngr
<zorz>
if you check the .footprint of Tim, has man for dirmngr but no binary
<zorz>
i compiled and install gnutls, and then recompile gnupg to get dirmngr.
<zorz>
the port of gnupg, missing libassuan and gnutls.
<zorz>
deps.
<zorz>
anyway, the opencrux of SiFuh & Co, will have a proper gnupg port so users can locate keys, check them and feel more safe :P