<SiFuh>
zorz: remiliascarlet: When the wife's company went to Mandarin Oriental Hotel. I walked into the restaurant and the man who was cutting up the meat asked what I would like. I said "I'm just looking for a dead cow to eat" and he showed me all the pieces and I pointed to the one I want. No laughing at all. 100% serious. He then said to me "We have dead sheep too" and I looked at it and said "No that's
<SiFuh>
dead baby sheep" he replied "Yes". "I will stick with the dead cow, thanks" I replied.
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<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: farkuhar: stenur replied by the way. "Thanks for being a friend, but where should i find any time for doing anything valuable? "Everyone asking", thanks thanks, but i am pretty nice in that regard, and always was?" a small section from the email relevant to your questions.
<SiFuh>
Kind of like farkuhar's reference to the FSCK error being a big scary fsck screen /* Then display the big scary fsck screen */
<SiFuh>
I liked this one. I had to write it in into my rc.c as it popped into my head. * Send in the terminator to exterminate processes
<SiFuh>
You need Arnold Schwazenegger's accent though.
<zorz>
SiFuh: i wouldn't try anything from troglobit :P
<ppetrov^>
farkuhar, why did you change the colour of the table in index.html generated by pkg-repgen? Now it loks the same as the one for ports, done by portspage
<ppetrov^>
i do not complain, i am just asking
<zorz>
vanilla runit, with socklog... is good! As ukky said, he study them :P
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<farkuhar>
SiFuh: Send in the Terminator? The villain in those films was some kind of Artificial Intelligence, right? One would hope that the processes needing "extermination" by rc.c do not qualify as AI.
<farkuhar>
ppetrov^: You're free to edit /usr/share/pkg-get/style.html yourself, and choose any colour scheme you want. Then protect your revisions from future updates by writing a pkgadd.conf rule.
<ppetrov^>
thanks farkuhar , i do not mind the coour scheme at all
<SiFuh>
40 bloody minutes to buy a 20" tube off of an old Chinese man at the bicycle shop!
<SiFuh>
I think he has dementia. He kept forgetting.
<farkuhar>
ppetrov^: olutmies confirmed your gimp build failure when poppler-ink is installed. Looks like I'll have to make that port even harder to detect. (And here I thought the non-standard install location would be enough to keep it from interfering with anything.)
<ppetrov^>
farkuhar, why *you* modifying poppler-ink portn, and not him foxing the gimp port
<farkuhar>
ppetrov^: If I knew how the gimp port could be modified to work around the presence of poppler-ink, I would suggest it to olutmies. But I'm still hitting what appears to be an unrelated error when building gimp.
<ppetrov^>
ok
<SiFuh>
Isn't poppler the cause of many issues within the last few years?
<ppetrov^>
has been, yes
<farkuhar>
Well, inkscape did have a tendency to break after every poppler update. Hence the motivation for depending on a duplicate port poppler-ink, so that the inkscape update schedule could be decoupled from the poppler update schedule. I'm not aware of any other major breakage caused by poppler.
<ppetrov^>
so that's what poppler-ink was...
<ppetrov^>
kinda abvious now
<farkuhar>
What puzzles me is why gimp would break when poppler-ink is installed, but not when poppler is installed. After all, aren't they currently at the same version?
<ppetrov^>
so yes, if it's created just for inkscape, hide it better from the rest
<ppetrov^>
maybe my poppler-ink was linked against sth?
<SiFuh>
Hmmm: poppler is also a hard dependency because PDF is too common nowadays for it to be an option
<SiFuh>
Damn you GIMP
<SiFuh>
and poppler-data (CJK and Cyrillic support in PDF) is also required because no languages should be considered "second class citizen". If we support PDF, let's support it properly, i.e. exhaustively.
<SiFuh>
libpoppler-glib 0.69.0 poppler-data 0.4.9
<ppetrov^>
no languages should be considered "second class citizen"
<ppetrov^>
yes CRUX has no NLS
<ppetrov^>
:P
<farkuhar>
ppetrov^: /usr/share/gettext/ABOUT-NLS would like a word with you.
<remiliascarlet>
About the distro name, should it include or exclude the word "Linux"?
<remiliascarlet>
ppetrov^: "*FreeCRUX" Yes, Free CRUX! He has done nothing wrong!
<farkuhar>
Per Liden selected a distro name that excluded the word "Linux", so that's one precedent we could follow. But you'll always have users like uwumeowmeownyaa who will insist on appending "GNU/Linux" to whatever distro name we choose.
<remiliascarlet>
SiFuh: South Korea has put so many charges on Johnny Somali that by the time his jail time is over, I'll be an old granny and you'll probably be already dead. Guess what that nigger then does right outside of the court room with the judge there hearing him? He made death threats to him and his mom on a live stream.
<remiliascarlet>
Only a total braindead would do this!
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<farkuhar>
It's not a good sign that the gimp build is stuck at target 2545/2574 (app/gimp-console-3.0). I think this is where it failed for me the last time.
<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: Did I ask before where brain-dead gets money?
<farkuhar>
False alarm, the linking of app/gimp-console-3.0 eventually succeeded. But once again I hit the error "illegal variable name in environment file /usr/pkgmk/work/gimp/src/gimp-3.0.2/data/environ/meson.build" on target 2572/2574 (gimp-data/images/gimp-splash.png)
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<ppetrov^>
farkuhar, would it be possible to add an option to finddeps, to list them in a row? This way, they can easily be placed on the "# Depends on:" line. SCOuple of years ago, I wrote my own small tool to do that, but may be it's a functionality that others may want, too.
<farkuhar>
ppetrov^: https://harmful.cat-v.org/cat-v/ "We are reminded that ls isn't the place for code to break a single column into multiple ones, and that mailnews shouldn't have its own more processing or joke encryption code."
<ppetrov^>
which means...
<ppetrov^>
?
<ppetrov^>
all I ask is to output deps as a line, just like prt-get quickdep does
<ppetrov^>
and as findredundantdeps -s does
<farkuhar>
write it as a function in your ~/.bashrc: finddeps_s() { finddeps $1 | awk -v ORS=" " '{print $1}' }
<ppetrov^>
this ends up in "$", how can i make it end with a new row
<ppetrov^>
pff.. descaled the coffeemaker, i feel useful
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: It's not hard, but I must admit, it requires lots and lots of practice
<ppetrov^>
SiFuh, sure it's not hard, but if you don't use this frequently, you forget
<farkuhar>
We haven't heard from zorz since he said troglobit was not to be trusted, despite stenur's endorsement.
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: Not bad at all. Very cool
<ppetrov^>
troglobit? sounds funny
<ppetrov^>
thanks SiFuh
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: Reminds me of troglodyte
<farkuhar>
The init system that filled in the gaps with frog DNA, remember?
<ppetrov^>
i guess that's the joke
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Nah, I didn't read it over and over and over again to remember it. :-P
<ppetrov^>
k, after the one line deps, another question. Is there a tool to tell you you have missing dependencies on your system?
<ppetrov^>
for example, after ports -u, suddenly a new dep has been introduced
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: Not that I am aware but I use a fancy command for that.
<SiFuh>
for i in $(prt-get listinst); do prt-get deptree $i |grep "\[ "; done Something like that
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: farkuhar will have a fancy way too for sure
<farkuhar>
Hmm, it might be a stretch to go from "interested in trying troglobit finit" to claiming that it has stenur's endorsement. Maybe he hasn't yet tested it himself.
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: That's the beauty of it. So many ways to do it. one line commands, multiple commands piped, a shell script. All good as long as they do what they are suppose to.
<ppetrov^>
yep
<ppetrov^>
i also have a tool, maybe i will take a look and clean up the code a bit
<farkuhar>
ppetrov^: GIMP doesn't want any language to be considered "second class citizen", so they enable all these translation targets by default. olutmies doesn't bother to disable them, so `grep LC_MESSAGES gimp/.footprint` shows 134 files for all the supported languages.
<SiFuh>
LC_MESSAGES <-- I remove everyone
<SiFuh>
Old School CRUX
<SiFuh>
Thre is a name for you OSC (Old School CRUX)
<farkuhar>
The Latin root word for "kiss" has the letters OSC. So by naming the distro OSC, you'd be reminding users of the Keep It Stupid Simple mantra.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: And is that a problem?
<ppetrov^>
OSC Linux
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: It's not a problem, it's an additional advantage of the name.
<SiFuh>
No need Linux. Not a fan it same like remiliascarlet
<ppetrov^>
ye ye ye
<ppetrov^>
i need to chewck what LC_MESSAGES i
<SiFuh>
Well how are we going to shout at Osas everytime he comes in and sas OSC GUN/Linux ?
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Actually I'd like to keep it 4 letters or less.
<SiFuh>
I will ask emmett1 and serpente about OSC
<ppetrov^>
Oscellating
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Had a funny one today. Malaysians call the (US terms) trunk and hood both 'bonet' and emmett1 was saying English stupid. And I said but bonet comes from bonnet the British English word, so if it is stupid why did you adopt it and then change the meaning?
<farkuhar>
4 letters or less, okay. The X-hack might supply the fourth. if [ X"$distro_name" != XOSC ]; then ... ; fi
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: Ocelot since you like cats. HAHAHAHA
<SiFuh>
Ossicones if you want the horns of a Giraffe. :-P
<SiFuh>
Dilbert Creator Scott Adams’ Heartbreaking Announcement That He Has The Same Terminal Stage 4 Prostate Cancer As Joe Biden
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<SiFuh>
They share cancer together?
<SiFuh>
Scott Adams is a friend of Alex Jones and InfoWars.
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<farkuhar>
ppetrov^s typo about LC_MESSAGES made me wonder: did the GIMP include translations of their UI dialog into the Wookiee language?
<farkuhar>
Any ConLangs that got omitted from the GIMP's translation efforts would undermine their claim that no language should be considered a "second class citizen".
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Can you show me this Wookie language?
<ppetrov^>
erilun06-mobile, is your installation of CRUX working fine?
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: You missed it and he said yes
<ppetrov^>
ooo
<ppetrov^>
cool
<ppetrov^>
he, how about: COOL Linux
<SiFuh>
He finished it after I fell asleep
<ppetrov^>
or just COOL
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: Hmm, I don't think I've ever seen Wookiee in written form. I'm not that big a Star Wars fan, to waste my time tracking down how that dialogue appeared in the scripts.
<ppetrov^>
I still think "Crucial", as the word is best
<ppetrov^>
i bet some people study wookie
<SiFuh>
No, I was a international linguistic major so I really want to see farkuhar's Wookie :-)
<erilun06-mobile>
ppetrov^:Currently trying to get luakit installed and working, which seems to mean compiling webkitgtk for several hours
<ppetrov^>
erilun06-mobile, what is your hardware? if I may ask
<SiFuh>
erilun06-mobile: Welcome to the world of source compiled distros
<farkuhar>
4 letters for you: COSX = CRUX Old School eXiles. It doesn't make the connection to the Latin word for "kiss", but instead to a bone at the base of the spine (coccyx?)
<SiFuh>
You speed reading again farkuhar?
<erilun06-mobile>
Lenovo Thinkpad x250 with a core I7 vpro CPU, or something like that
<SiFuh>
[00 53 20] [SiFuh> farkuhar: Actually I'd like to keep it 4 letters or less.
<SiFuh>
Less != 4
<farkuhar>
A possible sales pitch: "We put the C before OSX because Apple was too afraid to take that step"
<ppetrov^>
erilun06-mobile, will take time
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: I was trying to be less ambitious than "Osculatrix", after you said "4 letters or less".
<ppetrov^>
SiFuh, "LESS"
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<ppetrov^>
letters < 4? Call it "HUI", you will attract slavic-speaking community
<SiFuh>
XYI ;-)
<SiFuh>
хуй
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: I have installed хуй into my computer. It isn't working now. I need to fix it and compile хуй correctly.
<ppetrov^>
ХУЙ requires some manual work...
<ppetrov^>
only for experienced... users...
<SiFuh>
I need to turn on me ХУЙ so I can play some games
<ppetrov^>
ХУЙ is for those users who are not afraid to get their hands dirty...
<SiFuh>
I will put this ХУЙ onto a flash drive and stick in a USB port.
<SiFuh>
I need to upgrade my ХУЙ system. Will take a few hours.
<SiFuh>
Package manager could be called пизда or сика
<ppetrov^>
сука
<erilun06-mobile>
[19:12] SiFuh: erilun06-mobile: Welcome to the world of source compiled distros
<erilun06-mobile>
------------------------
<erilun06-mobile>
I'm currently running arch-spin on my PC and main laptop, including quite a few aur-git packages
<SiFuh>
I need to install сука on my хуй first
<erilun06>
question, what is the recommended whay to modify a Pkgfile or part of the sources before building
<SiFuh>
erilun06: None to be honest. But the best option is to move it to a new directory and add that to prt-get.conf. But you can still modify in the current directory, just it will get overwritten with ports -u
<SiFuh>
erilun06: Nothing stopping you from having your own repo. And the higher up in the list 'prt-get.conf' the more priority it will have
<erilun06>
on arch, using an aur-helper, you can configure it to ask you if you want to modify anything before it does the install. arch might have some issues, but there are upsides to having a huge amount of users and contributors
<SiFuh>
Any port modified should have its main folder above the repo it came from. Example. If you modify a core port. You need to add your repo above prtdir /usr/ports/core
<SiFuh>
prtdir /usr/ports/erilun above core will have absolute priority and if it exists in core it will be ignored.
<erilun06>
right, is there any way then to do: core/pkgname if erilun/pkgname exists?
<SiFuh>
Manually if I am reading you correctly. Using pkgmk
<farkuhar>
Why would you create erilun/pkgname if you didn't want it to override core/pkgname?
<erilun06>
SiFuh: ah, so prt-get uses plgmk to read and execute the Pkgfile?
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<farkuhar>
erilun06: yes, pkgmk is the bash script that ultimately interprets the instructions in the Pkgfile. But some of the headers are parsed by prt-get too, for the purposes of sorting the install targets.
<SiFuh>
erilun06: Basically. Just copy your port you want to modify to /usr/ports/erilun/<port>. Edit prt-get.cong to add your modification as priority. Then build and install it. If an update appears then you can manually test the update or modify it again. But prt-get will only take the first instance. So the /usr/ports/erilun. But if you remove that port from /usr/ports/erilun or manually pkgmk the
<SiFuh>
/usr/ports/core version then you can still install that.
<erilun06>
farkuhar: version x:package core/foo won't install, created erilun/foo to fix the issue-> there is an update to core, installcmd core/foo to test if it works now and deprecating erilun/foo is in order
<SiFuh>
erilun06: So remove erilun/foo if core/foo is fine
<SiFuh>
Who install foo?
<farkuhar>
Better question: who pushed the previous update to core/foo (the one that resulted in breakage, not the one that fixed it)?
<SiFuh>
Hehe stenur is back, fixed it. Hahaha
<erilun06>
I am partially asking because I have plans to create my own package management tool on top of the existing ones, but a bit inspired by nix/guix having a codefile describe what packages to install, at some point I will have to read the source of prt-get,pkgmk and the rest, as I will want to understand them to write my own thing ontop
<SiFuh>
erilun06: Tried it years ago. Messed up the system
<SiFuh>
It also doesn't follow the old school CRUX way
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: what do you mean "stenur is back"? Is that in response to my question about who pushed the previous update to core/foo?
<SiFuh>
farkuhar doesn't get jokes even logical one.
<SiFuh>
ones
<erilun06>
SiFuh:what is it you tried?making your own package management tool?
<SiFuh>
erilun06: No using GUIX for expermentation
<erilun06>
SiFuh: well, good thing then that it's pretty easy to install, it's currently installed on my secondary laptop, I also got another laptop and a desktop running arch-derivatives, part of why crux seem so interesting to me is the simplicity of the package system
<SiFuh>
Yes you can even install the gobolinux layer. CRUX is highly adaptable
<erilun06>
gobolinux? what's that?
<farkuhar>
The selling point of Nix/GUIX is declarative configurations, right? Meaning you specify which software you want to have installed, and how you want everything configured, but you don't provide step-by-step commands?
<SiFuh>
erilun06: Most simple way I can say this. A Muslim guy wanted Linux to be more like Windows. Made a system with a new filesystem heirarchy by making the common unix environment invisible and allowing the isntallation of multiple libraries of the same kind but different versions per package(port/program)
<erilun06>
farkuhar: as far as I understand it, yes. my issue with guix is the lack of packages and the fact that I don't really know enough guile to write my own definitions(like a Pkgfile but written in guile instead of bash)
<erilun06>
it also seems like it still uses a standard-ish package manager, but with the ability to read a list of packages to install
<erilun06>
my issue with nix is that I can't read the config file, and thus can't write it either, although at least it's not python or haskell
<erilun06>
SiFuh: that sounds like a pretty bad idea...
<SiFuh>
erilun06: The concept was good, the implentation was cray
<SiFuh>
crap*
<erilun06>
right
<SiFuh>
For example farkuahar could install gimp but it would have it's own poppler and Inkscape with its own poppler.
<SiFuh>
No cross detection and all date installed meaning if he removed gimp and gimp's poppler it would not effect Inkscape or its poppler
<SiFuh>
And you could install multiple versions of gimp as well.
<erilun06>
to be honest, wanting linux to be more like windows is always going to feel like a bad idea, part of why I abandoned KDE, too windowsy
<SiFuh>
I abanonded KDE long time ago. Been using fluxbox since 2002 or 2001 I think.
<erilun06>
SiFuh: that sounds like the pitch for flatpack/snap/appimage
<SiFuh>
No chance
<erilun06>
I'm on awesomeWM, and loving it
<SiFuh>
Each and his own
<erilun06>
at the time I started using it, Lua was my favourite programming language, now its fennel, which is lua with lisp syntax(emacs user here...)
<SiFuh>
emacs too
<SiFuh>
I use to install massren to mass rename files until I found out emacs had the option
<SiFuh>
Surprises me every month what it has
<erilun06>
imma head to the store to get some champoo and stuff, and then Ill make and eat dinner and do some gaming
<SiFuh>
erilun06: I will probably smoke a cigar with the dog and take a shower. It'd late here
<erilun06>
yeah, emacs is really good, although I use evil-mode...
<SiFuh>
erilun06: Ever tried emacs as a Desktop Environment?
<erilun06>
what's massren by the way?
<SiFuh>
Some shit script to rename many files
<SiFuh>
when I discovered emacs had this feature, I started using it. Never needed massren again.
<SiFuh>
erilun06: Example you downloaded a heap of TV Series and want to rename the files nicely. You can use dired and open a directory, set it to edit mode and rename every file using replace-string
<erilun06>
emacs as a Desktop Environment? well, depends on what you would call what I did at my prevous workplace, had to use windows, but my job was to write shell scripts... used windows as a bloated bootloader for emacs,gitbash, and firefox
<SiFuh>
save it and it will rename every file and then you can delete junk files too
* SiFuh
never been a Windows guy. Started on BSD and Linux and stayed. Windows is a toy for me
<SiFuh>
erilun06: Also I like that I can write code in Linux and Unix pretty much out of the box unlike Windows where I have to download a lot of crap just to begin.
<erilun06>
SiFuh:I usually use vidir or equivalent for mass-renaming files. but I usually do that on a server over ssh, and (n)vim is just quicker than trying to get my emacs conf synced with the server every time
<SiFuh>
And in the 90's all the hacking tools were available for the *nixes
<erilun06>
I'm to young to have used BSD...
<SiFuh>
erilun06: I rarely use vi/vim just basic editing on a system. Not really a fan. Easy to use though.
<erilun06>
anyway, later
<SiFuh>
A quick go to, for simple edits. If I want realy stuff done, it is emacs.
<erilun06>
I can't exit nano without looking it up, vim is just worse evil-mode
<farkuhar>
Finally got a successful build of gimp 3.0.2! I ended up disabling the splash screen target, by changing true to false on two lines of gimp-data/images/meson.build
<erilun06>
I am at the point where I alias :q to exit in my shell...
<farkuhar>
Now let's test the gimp build again with poppler-ink installed, to see if ppetrov^s #38 can be reproduced.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Did you read ppetrov^'s script?
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: Probably did, a long time ago. He might have changed it since then.
<SiFuh>
It's actually pretty good
<SiFuh>
And well written even though he uses 4 spaces instead of 2 :-P
<farkuhar>
Whitespace preferences, heh. Reminds me of your recent debate with ukky for talking about "hard tabs" as if that were a universally recognized expression.
<SiFuh>
Crux Relicta, Veterem Sequimur!
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Debate?
<SiFuh>
No, ukky offered advice to remove any possible whitespaces at the front even though I found none. Security feature
<farkuhar>
Okay, successful build of gimp 3.0.2 even with poppler-ink installed. I'm inclined to close #38 as a non-issue.
<SiFuh>
But I have re-written all that anyway. Completely overhauled it for a more SANE version.
<SiFuh>
I am even thinking to put everything in separate C files and make them as one during compilation because a thousand lines of code is getting to be annoying in one file.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Crux Relicta, Veterem Sequimur! The Cross Abandoned, We Follow the Old One!
<SiFuh>
Google Translate is close.
<SiFuh>
How can it be a non-issue if you found the issue?
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: serpente says he likes the name Relicta on its own.
<farkuhar>
I solved my own build problem, not the one reported by ppetrov^ (and since confirmed by olutmies).
<SiFuh>
Alone it should be relictus
<SiFuh>
He says RelictOS
<serpente>
no no, i was kidding
<serpente>
Relictus is best
<serpente>
or Relicta
<ppetrov^>
SiFuh, sounds like ReactOS
<ppetrov^>
farkuhar, cool
<farkuhar>
ppetrov^: cool for me, not for you. I assume you're still hitting errors building gimp when poppler-ink is installed?
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: a thousand lines of code in one file? That's about how long my Perl rewrite of prt-get is (1007 lines at last count).
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Yes but generally we don't do that in C. We write sections into separate files and merge them into binaries. Easier. I didn't expect my rc.c to get so long.
<farkuhar>
Heh, I just ran cloc on the prt-get source tree. 4634 lines of C++, 712 lines of C++ headers, and 23 lines of Makefile.
<ppetrov^>
i am, farkuhar
<SiFuh>
I am not
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Basically write a script for loading and unloading dameons. Include it into the main. A script for LVM and script for reboot. Easy to look, read inspect. But once compiled it goes into one binary.
<farkuhar>
ppetrov^: did you attach a build log to your original report? Or just the /usr/bin/ld complaints about "undefined reference to NSSSignatureConfiguration"?
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: I put it all into one because I didn't expect it to become so long. And ended up as ukky called it AI comments, so that I could see where I was and what I was checking/modifying. It got too big.
<SiFuh>
When I go production, I will strip it all down and call on each later.
<SiFuh>
And implement DEBUG=true and VERBOSE=true.
<SiFuh>
And compact the code instead of many lines for something like char which can be just done on a single line.
<ppetrov^>
farkuhar, I pasted an excerpt at gitea
<ppetrov^>
but beerman said he got the same issue
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: olutmies has many issues
<ppetrov^>
ba-dum-tss
<SiFuh>
Mostly issues that requires himself to resolve though
<erilun06>
farkuhar:"hard tab"=\t, right? it's what I use, even for lisp code...
<SiFuh>
erilun06: If you are doing bash then no tabs at all. The style is 2 spaces for each indentation.
<farkuhar>
erilun06: that's how I understood it. But ukky mentioned that some editors intercept the keypress, and insert into the buffer a fixed number of spaces (usually 8).
<SiFuh>
OpenBSD uses 8 tabs for the initial indentation and 4 spaces for every other indentation.
<SiFuh>
But that is for C
<SiFuh>
And there is a great debate about tabs vs spaces.