07:05 <ppetrov^> so, the mystery of gimp continues, farkuhar

07:51 <SiFuh> Spider bite!

07:51 <ppetrov^> are you ok

07:51 <SiFuh> My f-you finger is in pain

07:52 <SiFuh> Should be fine...

07:53 <SiFuh> Seems the paind is localised around 1cm radius and I don't know when it happened.

07:54 <SiFuh> Well, I know it happened sometime when I was going Texas Massacre on the tree down the road

08:03 <SiFuh> ppetrov^: By the size of the bite, I bet it is a jumping spider

09:55 <zorz> SiFuh_: online?

10:04 <farkuhar> ppetrov^: zorz is here

10:07 <zorz> i removed random seed, from rc... it seems on mine the shutdown save random did not work, but anyway new kernels dont need random seed

10:19 <farkuhar> zorz: I recall stenur made similar complaints, that the commands rc was using for random seed were worthless. Search for FS#1921 on https://crux.nu/Wiki/TODO38

10:21 <zorz> no need to search... after kernel 5.6 is worthless

10:22 <zorz> maybe for virtualiasation but kernel gives virtio rng

10:22 <zorz> even then using the seedrng is better option

10:24 <zorz> [zorz@vbox ~]$ cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/entropy_avail

10:24 <zorz> 256

10:24 <zorz> [zorz@vbox ~]$ cat /proc/sys/kernel/random/poolsize

10:24 <zorz> 256

10:25 <zorz> 256 is enough

10:31 <farkuhar> contrib/gimp messes with the filenames under $PKG/usr/share/man/man1 after the build, producing a dangling symlink whose target no longer exists. I'm wondering if this scenario might help us reproduce the failure mode of FS#1645: https://libera.catirclogs.org/crux-social/2025-05-08#38125405;

10:36 <zorz> farkuhar: why you dont check this https://gitlab.archlinux.org/archlinux/packaging/packages/gimp and finish with this build.

10:37 <zorz> --buildtype=plain --prefix=/usr --sysconfdir=/etc --libexecdir=/usr/bin \

10:38 <farkuhar> zorz: heh, after SiFuh_ told us the story of Aaron coming to CRUX for help with Arch packaging, you want us to do the reverse?

10:41 <zorz> heh

10:41 <zorz> when he said that?

10:41 <zorz> hahahaa

10:42 <zorz> we can help.... if he needs, i will take it seriously :P

10:42 <farkuhar> zorz: it was back in the early days of Arch ... around 2003 or thereabouts?

10:43 <zorz> oooooooo farkuhar almost forgot about it, last night at sysup, nodejs etc etc dracut did not install... anyway i did not even know i had dracut... so pkgrm dracut but maybe you want to get a look at it

10:43 <farkuhar> zorz: ppetrov^ already opened a ticket on behalf of oldradio (who made the initial report in #crux).

10:44 <zorz> yeaaaaaaaaa 22 years ago

10:45 <farkuhar> yeah, build tooling was much less complicated 22 years ago, before the proliferation of all these new systems and languages (meson, cmake, ninja, ...)

10:46 <zorz> right now, compiled kernel with runit my system is sexy https://0x0.st/8yZf.txt

10:48 <zorz> i finish a few tweaks in 1(rc), 2, 3(shutdown) and i will upload the Pkgfile.

10:52 <zorz> farkuhar: wrong efibootmgr, kernel, runit :P

10:57 <farkuhar> ppetrov^: Following up on your #38, I tried relying solely on "-D relocatable_bundle=no" and leaving meson.build untouched (not deleting the line subdir('gimp-data/images/')). The build still hit an error at the "illegal variable name" in gimp-3.0.2/data/environ/meson.build

10:59 <farkuhar> Luckily I made a package manually, using the contents of $PKG after building by hand with the gimp-data/images/ subdir disabled. I should run the resulting app to see how it copes with the missing splash screen (and other images that are part of the standard UX).

11:10 <farkuhar> Looks like I scared away both zorz and ppetrov^

11:27 <SiFuh> farkuhar: I never looked into random seed. So it is worthless to keep it in rc I take it?

11:37 <farkuhar> SiFuh: According to zorz, there's no need for micromanaging the random seed if you're using a kernel newer than 5.6

11:38 <farkuhar> If I ever get around to updating my forked tools/rc repo, I'll remove the random seed commands there too.

11:45 <farkuhar> Deleting from meson.build the line subdir('gimp-data/images/') is not simply "less than ideal", it absolutely cripples the resulting app. Sure, I get some non-fatal console spam about missing catalogs in /usr/share/locale, but the absence of all the GIMP icons makes it impossible to draw any part of the UX, and it crashes as a result.

11:46 <farkuhar> Moral of the story: don't sacrifice the integrity of the resulting app just for the sake of avoiding a segfault during the build. That's the wrong tradeoff to make.

11:51 <SiFuh> I think you should look into the seed thing before you just remove it though.

11:52 <SiFuh> And hopefully Tuesday I can continue work on my ANSI C rc because this thing is awesome

11:54 <SiFuh> The issue I plan to tackle next is why it errors out and fails when mounting /dev says Invalid something...

11:54 <farkuhar> As I recall from FS#1921, stenur suggested the seedrng thing from Jason Donenfeld, not a complete removal. I agree it would be more conservative to keep some random seeding commands in rc, even if the kernel these days handles entropy just fine on its own.

11:54 <SiFuh> It mounts /proc /sys and then /run it says Error mounting filesystem: Invalid argument.

11:55 <farkuhar> Heh, "invalid variable name" is the error that has been killing my gimp builds. Funny that your ANSI C rc is complaining about Invalid something when mounting /dev.

11:56 <farkuhar> s/invalid/illegal/ but the point remains.

11:57 <SiFuh> And after that error, not sure if it is because of it, root stays read only. :-P

11:57 <SiFuh> Anyway, nothing serious. I will figure it out.

11:59 <SiFuh> Hmm my spider bite has made it my wrist. So the entire right hand is in light weird uncomfortable pain.

11:59 <farkuhar> I don't believe the dangling symlink to a nonexistent target is quite the same for contrib/gimp as it was for opt/gpg when therealfun opened FS#1645. In the case of opt/gpg, there was already a gzipped man-page of the exact same name that the first loop of compress_manpages() was trying to create. But contrib/gimp only has uncompressed man-pages after the build, so gzip never has to avoid clobbering an existing file.

12:04 <farkuhar> Anyway, I should look into something less crude than deleting the entire 'gimp-data/images/' subdir from meson.build targets. If I figure out how to omit just the splash screen from the build, but allow all the other UX images to be generated, then maybe I can get a working package and no segfault on the final target.

12:16 <SiFuh> zorz_: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMaTWl3yJ2c Send this man to Tehran!

12:16 <SiFuh> Bet he wouldn't last a couple of minutes before they execute him.

13:14 <ukky> One of under-appreciated features of runit is logging and auto log rotation for services supervised by runit. Log rotation is user-configurable.

13:17 <SiFuh> ukky: I will ask the guy I borrowed the chainsaw from if I can take it for a service. The chain needs tensioning, it smokes way too much, rev sticks on, the chain is blunt. The oil cap vibrated off and when the oil poured out, I noticed it was used engine oil. Hahahahaha.

13:18 <SiFuh> Bring it back in the same condition or better. That is the rule when borrowing someone elses tools.

13:20 <ukky> SiFuh: too bad for chainsaw to have such owner

13:25 <SiFuh> ukky: Well, the shop I plan to take it for a service is also the place that sells STIHL. So I will be looking at buying my own. I want a similar model to his because we go off road together.

13:25 <SiFuh> Then we can always pinch parts off of each to have at least one working chainsaw if two failed.

13:26 <ukky> Haha. This would be good idea if new chainsaw is the same age with the same part list.

13:29 <SiFuh> ukky: All good. I will ask his permission first and pay for the service out of my pocket.

13:29 <ukky> Are you sure you'd like to own a chainsaw? Maybe you can buy that SS canister for making beer instead D Unless you have a few trees to cut on your property.

13:30 <SiFuh> I go off-road so having one is a good option.

13:31 <SiFuh> ukky: Also, I can do the service here at my home, but I told the wife, if the shop does it, there is a warranty and anything wrong in the future will be their fault.

13:31 <ukky> Oh, then it is a must have tool.

13:32 <SiFuh> ukky: I used a brand new reciprocal saw two cut some branches last year. Never used it since. Desided to use it today. Charged the battery and voila! Doesn't work at all. So that needs a warranty claim.

13:34 <ukky> I hate any tool with batteries. I have only cordless drill, that one I use sometimes. That model is old and used NiCd battery.

13:35 <ukky> s/used/uses/

13:36 <SiFuh> ukky: Me too. I gave all mine away. Now I have only Milwaukee which works very well. And that saw that doesn't work at all. hahaha

13:36 <ukky> My reciprocal saw is corded.

13:37 <SiFuh> Now power points in the jungle

13:38 <ukky> Japanese saw is good when you have no power

13:39 <ukky> I have this: https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0014C4R3E

13:41 <SiFuh> ukky: I am using one like this https://dengarden.com/.image/w_750,q_auto:good,c_limit/MTc0MzUzNjQwMzc4MjE0MDIy/tree-saw.jpg

13:41 <SiFuh> ukky: It stays in the back of the truck usually.

13:41 <SiFuh> Which reminds me. I forgot to release the blade.

13:43 <ukky> The saw you have cuts in push-pull motion. Japanese saw cuts in pull motion, and it would take much less space in your truck.

13:47 <SiFuh> ukky: Yeah but can use two hands on mine. But yes, I like the one you sent.

13:48 <SiFuh> Actually I think mine is push pull cut. I will check the blade

13:49 <SiFuh> ukky: Just checked, mine is push + pull cut. All my other saws I set the blades up for push cut only.

13:49 <ukky> SiFuh: your saw style is usually push-pull, but could be push-only.

13:54 <SiFuh> ukky: I generally don't like pull to cut. So that is why I seemed to remember looking at the blade and thinking, oh this is both.

13:55 <SiFuh> ukky: The teeth on that Japanese saw looks lethal. Hehe

13:56 <ukky> SiFuh: push-pull is good when two people are doing the cut

13:56 <SiFuh> ukky: Yes, we did that last time in Jeram Janggut when sawing a vine

13:56 <SiFuh> Mr K on one side and me on the other.

13:57 <SiFuh> ukky: It was a pain in the butt because the more we cut the vine the more gravity would crush the blade.

13:58 <ukky> Japanese saw allows blade to be much thinner and cuts faster. Plus, does not need the frame.

13:58 <SiFuh> ukky: I will look but I think only cheap Chinese versions here

13:58 <ukky> It could be chineese-made. The style/type matters.

14:00 <ukky> Benchmarking /dev/urandom: time dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/null bs=1000000 count=10000

14:00 <ukky> Linux is 355.240 MiB/s; NetBSD is 24.271 MiB/s

14:01 <ukky> Different systems though.

14:03 <SiFuh> U-M Industry (Silky) Big Boy All-purpose Eye 360mm 350-36 (Direct from Japan) RM255.13

14:03 <SiFuh> Expensive

14:03 <SiFuh> i can buy a chainsaw for 260 MYR STIHL

14:04 <SiFuh> ukky: Produced in Ono City, Hyogo Prefecture, famous for its cutlery town.

14:04 <SiFuh> Well, then it is worth the price

14:06 <ukky> SiFuh: I will check where mine is made.

14:15 <ukky> There are some Japanese characters. Text in English only has model and 'Made in Japan' label.

14:16 <SiFuh> Photo?

14:17 <SiFuh> Ohh I have better idea

14:17 <SiFuh> ukky: 小野市 <-- Does it say this?

14:20 <ukky> I think there is last character, but I do not see first too

14:29 <ukky> SiFuh: https://imgur.com/a/WPPeyKQ

14:32 <SiFuh> Hmm, still not loaded yet. Wonder why everything is so slow today

14:33 <SiFuh> Oh here it comes

14:34 <SiFuh> ukky: Oh it is nothing. It says Silky Bog Boy in Japanese and the measurements of the blade.

14:34 <ukky> okay

14:35 <ukky> For as long as it is made in Japan, I do not care which place exactly.

14:36 <SiFuh> シルキーピップボーイ <-- SIlky Pip Poi Hahaha Not Big Boy

14:38 <ukky> haha

14:39 <ukky> How do you like my Pip Poi? Is it pip enough?

14:40 <SiFuh> ukky: remiliascarlet: would be the best to read this. I know in Thai some words are spelled wrong to adapt to western language. Like Yakult cannot exist in Thai because the T becomes an N but still everyone pronounces Yakult and not Yakun even though the writing says otherwise.

15:26 <ppetrov^> farkuhar, pkg-get update appstream -f behaves funny. The package is installed, however pkg-get says "-- Packages not previously installed (ignored)"

15:27 <farkuhar> ppetrov^: does it list appstream below that line?

15:27 <ppetrov^> yes

15:27 <ppetrov^> same goes for libxmlb

15:28 <farkuhar> ppetrov^: thanks for the bug report. I'll have to look into that.

15:29 <ppetrov^> also, doing "pkg-get depends inkscape" does not show the cute boxes, e.g. [i], [u], [ ]

15:29 <ppetrov^> shows just a list

15:29 <ppetrov^> as a column

15:31 <farkuhar> ppetrov^: The -f flag is meant to force the pkgadd invocation, in the event of conflicting files. To force a "rebuild" (really a re-download from the pkg-get server), pass the flag -fr instead.

15:32 <ppetrov^> -fr for pkg-get?

15:32 <farkuhar> Yes

15:32 <ppetrov^> ok, weird, i somehow rememberef it's -f for pkg-get and -fr for prt-get

15:33 <farkuhar> It's been a while, but I think the -f flag gets passed directly to pkgadd, to bypass the warning about collisions with other packages' footprints.

15:37 <farkuhar> ppetrov^: I tried editing gimp-3.0.2/data/environ/meson.build by hand before `meson setup`, to see if the "illegal variable" warning could be stopped. But I still got that warning, and script-fu complained about a broken pipe again. Maybe I should try building the previous version of gimp for comparison.

15:38 <ppetrov^> maybe something on your PC?

16:50 <ppetrov^> isn't wpa_supplicant supposed to also ship a GUI?

17:30 <SiFuh> farkuhar: My right hand is moving to slowly. Hahaha how cool is that spider