serpente has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
<remiliascarlet>
erilun06-mobile: SiFuh is the remaining OG CRUX user, and that distro existed before Arch became a thing.
<remiliascarlet>
erilun06-mobile: "to be honest, wanting linux to be more like windows is always going to feel like a bad idea, part of why I abandoned KDE, too windowsy" That pretty much sums up all the people who came to Linux over the past 10 years. They always say they "hate" Windows, and then do everything in their power to turn Linux into Windows.
<remiliascarlet>
Which is part of the reason why Linux sucks nowadays.
<remiliascarlet>
erilun06-mobile: "I'm to young to have used BSD..." We used to have a 15 year old who daily drives OpenBSD. At least, he claimed to do so, and was caught lying many times before.
<remiliascarlet>
To be fair, old Linux users moved to Haiku because Linux became too Windows-like, and now they're turning Haiku into something more Linux-like.
<ppetrov^>
change the channel: Lin SiFuh, #crux-social at irc dot libera dot chat
<SiFuh>
Heh, pedantic :-P
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: If you want more pedantic. In the Makefile I don't need to make the rc scripts executable chmod +x $(OUT_DIR)/$$base because it is in the Pkgfile :-P I just added it in case someone wishes to install it without pkg or prt utils.
<SiFuh>
And you could use CFLAGS = -std=c99 -Wall -Wextra -D_POSIX_C_SOURCE=200809L instead of CFLAGS = -ansi -Werror -pedantic -Wpedantic -pedantic-errors -std=iso9899:1990 -Wall -Wextra -D_POSIX_C_SOURCE=200809L
<farkuhar>
I find it counterintuitive to treat "mass renaming" (in a directory) as a feature to be accessed from within a text editor. A file manager like Midnight Commander is the more logical place to embed such a feature. To take advantage of the user's muscle memory in their preferred editor, the file manager can just launch $EDITOR with the directory contents as the buffer.
<farkuhar>
After the user exits the editor (saving the updated buffer), the file manager simply applies the appropriate `mv` commands.
<zorz>
farkuhar: okay i will check it this weekend.
<zorz>
i will go either, bash, gcc, glibc or ksh, tcc, clang, musl.
<zorz>
farkuhar: the ports? like firefox ?
<farkuhar>
zorz: Check the topic in #crux-musl. emmett1 updated his overlay most recently, but I have a few updates almost ready to push.
<farkuhar>
zorz: If you do decide to omit gcc from your installation (and go with clang instead), keep in mind that a few ports will need patching to build correctly. Even pkgutils was originally written under the assumption that gcc-specific headers would always be available.
<zorz>
so ... having ksh musl... should be ok.
<farkuhar>
So at emmett1's request, I replaced a few #includes and function calls in the pkgutils source tree, and now you can build it even if clang is your only compiler.
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: does nano do cool stuff like deleting all white spaces right of a cursor? Replace all strings in an entire file?
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: emacs has its own filemanager built into it
<SiFuh>
zorz: Does ksh work?
<ppetrov^>
SiFuh, no idea, I usually use a grpahical editor and for seplacing stuff, I ude sed
<ppetrov^>
however, my IDE is rstudio, because of R
<ppetrov^>
for my ports I use medit
<ppetrov^>
and for README.md and some othe stuff, VSCodium
<ppetrov^>
never really cared about *learning* a text editor
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: Of course if you're already accustomed to emacs as your go-to file manager, then it's appropriate to find a mass-renaming feature there. I was just speaking from the perspective of users who have a different file manager as their default.
<SiFuh>
I use mc but no idea how to mass rename in it
<farkuhar>
ppetrov^: https://dpaste.com/CA657MPTF <- This is how I finally got gimp to build. I'm still running into errors when launching it, though (perhaps because I haven't exported the right variables to set the GTK theme).
<ppetrov^>
well, i dunni farkuhar
<farkuhar>
The exact error that gimp gives me is "Icon 'image-missing' not present in theme Default", after spamming stdout with a bunch of warnings about missing translations.
<ppetrov^>
can you send me a list of what packages you have installed on your system, so I run a comparison?
<farkuhar>
So I did `prt-get fsearch image-missing` and found a few ports that promise to provide the needed icon. One of those ports (hicolor-icon-theme) was already installed, but I went ahead and installed adwaita-icon-theme too. Even still, gimp fails to launch, citing the same error.
<farkuhar>
"only 446"? That's a lot, considering that the MUSL team's goal is not to be responsible for anything outside the core, opt, xorg repos (everything else will be left to the users).
<ppetrov^>
heh
<ppetrov^>
well, i have almost 500 R packages...
<farkuhar>
I was also prompted to install adwaita-icon-theme because of its post-install script. Running gdk-pixbuf-query-loaders and gtk-update-icon-cache seemed like a worthwhile thing to try, considering the error I was getting from gimp.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Powersupply has intermitent failure in my CRUX repo server. I'd have to find out if it is blown capacitors but why bother? It's powersupply is about the size of three decks of cards.
<zorz>
so the only way to have your script POSIX is through mirbsd mksh, openbsd, or ksh.... so fuck bash.:P
zorz has quit [Quit: leaving]
<farkuhar>
zorz: Sticking with bash is one way to honour Per's legacy. Unless someone more familiar with Per's thinking could assure us that he wouldn't mind us abandoning the bashisms that were acceptable from the earliest days of pkgutils and ports.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Not sure if he ever liked bash. :-P
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: How do I do time in CRUX again? UTC is set in BIOS and rc.conf is set to UTC :-P
<ppetrov^>
SiFuh, /etc/adjtime
<SiFuh>
"__Now it's time to compile your kernel__ and do basic system configuration." Hehehe
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: TIMEZONE=Asia/Kuala_Lumpur
<ppetrov^>
Europe/Helsinki
<ppetrov^>
:P
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: OLD (Old Linux Distro)
<SiFuh>
Like GNU (GNU's Not Unix)
<ppetrov^>
mhm, for old people
<SiFuh>
Alright installed the hard drive from the CRUX repo server into the CRUX build server.
<SiFuh>
Now I can extract the archive and upload to gitlab so people can peruse the source and complain about it to me.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: UPGRADE ^etc/.*$ NO The above example will cause pkgadd to never upgrade anything in /etc/ or /var/log/ (subdirectories included)
<SiFuh>
So if I edit inittab and syslog I don't need to modify pkgadd.conf
ivandi has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds]
<farkuhar>
SiFuh: The last rule that matches will override all the others. So if nothing below that line matches /etc/inittab then your local changes should be safe.
ppetrov^ has joined #crux-social
<ppetrov^>
SiFuh, OWLD: Old World Linux Distro
<SiFuh>
OWL (Old World Linux)
<farkuhar>
Each program that displays the time to the user could conceivably offer its own configuration file, to display a different timezone than what the BIOS clock is set to. For example, tint2 lets the user set time1_format, time2_format, time1_timezone and time2_timezone.
<farkuhar>
spectrwm provides its own bar, which seems to be less configurable than tint2. The only relevant options supported by spectrwm.conf are bar_format and clock_format, which don't allow the user to select an arbitrary timezone.
<ppetrov^>
OWL
<ppetrov^>
why not?
<farkuhar>
`TZ=Asia/Kuala_Lumpur date +%H:%M%z` is one way to get the desired timestamp at the command-line.
<farkuhar>
Users of floating window managers (not tiled) might prefer to run conky to have system info at their fingertips. conky should be configurable enough to embed a custom command like `TZ=Europe/Helsinki date +%H:%M%z` wherever the user wants the time displayed.
<farkuhar>
The clock built into tmux doesn't seem quite as configurable. So far I don't see a way to customize the timezone of the tmux clock at the user level; you might have to make the changes in rc.conf and BIOS.
<farkuhar>
Similarly the clock built into fluxbox only lets you change strftimeFormat, not the timezone. I haven't yet tried exporting a different value of TZ before launching a fresh instance of fluxbox or tmux, but `TZ=Asia/Kuala_Lumpur tmux attach` did not change the displayed time on the already-running tmux session.
<farkuhar>
Users shouldn't be expecting every program to honour the TZ environment variable, though. If it's not mentioned in the man-page, as it is in date(1), then there's probably no support for using TZ to customize what the hwclock provides.
ivandi has joined #crux-social
farkuhar has quit [Quit: nyaa~]
ppetrov^ has quit [Quit: Leaving]
serpente has joined #crux-social
ppetrov^ has joined #crux-social
ppetrov^ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
farkuhar has joined #crux-social
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: https://i.snipboard.io/lQZVYH.jpg this is the test for colours. I had no intention to write it yet. But since I am doing the VERBOSE and DEBUG options it makes sense to introduce the USE_COLOR option at the same time because it is literally the same function for printing text.
<SiFuh>
And DEBUG is already a working example too. So I will in start work in a day or two on the VERBOSE option as well, since it will be almost identical to DEBUG.
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: I working on the introduction of VERBOSE=true and DEBUG=true in the binary rc. Since as I said before you join that I had no intention to do colours, it would be illogical for me to ignore the colour option as it will be introduced to the same function. So I can do all three at the same time.
<SiFuh>
So at the moment it is currently set to detect if you use TERM=linux or another TERM. If TERM=linux then you have colours and format. If your TERM is not linux. Then it defaults to colour only and no format. However, I will need to test multiple TERM options to see which support format or not. We all know TERM=linux supports all. But not all TERM support it.
<SiFuh>
TERM=xterm has no format. Just colour. TERM=linux has bold and colour.
<SiFuh>
OC Original Crux OG Original CRUX with a G ;-)
<SiFuh>
twit The way it 'twas
<SiFuh>
Actually I was think of 'Per's Linux', 'Linden's Linux' Or just Per or Liden for short
<ukky>
imho, new name should not have reference to Crux
<SiFuh>
Liden Linux
<serpente>
i agree with ukky
<ukky>
No, it is a new vision. Whatever PL had in mind 25 years ago is not directly related to modern situation.
<SiFuh>
ukky: Okay 'FakQ' How's that?
<ukky>
Per wanted simple, configurable, fast. That is still relevant.
<serpente>
Liden sounds good
<SiFuh>
serpente: I like Liden too.
<SiFuh>
Lidén not Liden though
<SiFuh>
officially
<ukky>
Denlix
SiFuh_ has quit [Remote host closed the connection]
SiFuh_ has joined #crux-social
<SiFuh>
Liden is a distribution based off of the original CRUX with some minor tweaks to adapt to modern day Linux. It still uses BSD style scripting and focuses on simplicity and no extra junk for those who want a stripped down, clean version of Linux.
<ukky>
And I don't like Crucial for new Crux name. The name itself is very good. But it is RAM and SSD manufactuter.
<SiFuh>
ukky: I think it is cool, but I also dislike it as a new name from a distro.
<SiFuh>
ukky: If we are going to stay close to Per's ideas. Why not just name it Liden?
serpente has left #crux-social [ERC 5.6 (IRC client for GNU Emacs 29.4)]
serpente has joined #crux-social
<ukky>
Outlaw is nice too, as name, but only for slingshot, hunting knife, or long range rifle. Maybe for 4x4 off-road vehicle.
<SiFuh>
I like outlaw but serpente doesn't
<ukky>
Not for Linux
<SiFuh>
outlaw-comp outlaw-core outlaw-opt <-- glibc ports crap I was working on
<ukky>
I don't like having person's names in the distro name. Debian is an exception. For many years I did not know what it is stands for.
<SiFuh>
Debbie and Ian?
<SiFuh>
Heh
<ukky>
Yes.
<SiFuh>
Yet you use an os named Linux
<SiFuh>
Hmmm.
<ukky>
Moving away from Linux, so there is a temporary exception.
<SiFuh>
Lidex :-P
<SiFuh>
Hahahaha
<SiFuh>
Pex, Perx :-P
<ukky>
My preference would be some fictional name that sounds nice and is unique.
<SiFuh>
Pretty much everything these days is a person's name. Me a guy called "Three cup fulls" in Japanese. I burst out laughing "San Hai" (It didn't mean just cups by the way could be bowls full)
<SiFuh>
Frodo Linux. Bahahahahahahahaha
<SiFuh>
Gandalf Linux
<SiFuh>
Sorry doesn't catch me at all
<SiFuh>
Megatron Linux
<SiFuh>
Earl Sinclair Linux
<SiFuh>
Bart Simpson Linux
<SiFuh>
Stin & Rempy Linux
<SiFuh>
Rocker's Modern Life Linux
<SiFuh>
Rocko's
<SiFuh>
Gumby Linux
<ukky>
Like Crux, new name should not have Linux in the name. Linux is implied.
<serpente>
i agreed again with ukky, no Linux in the name, fictional and unique... and maybe in latin yes, like crux
<SiFuh>
serpente: I don't think Per chose the latin meaning of CRUX
<SiFuh>
CRUX = The most important point.
<SiFuh>
Not the Latin meaning CRUX = cross
<SiFuh>
How about this "Simply Is"?
<serpente>
i know, its for CRUXial... like not putting PAM in core
<SiFuh>
serpente: You seem to know a lot more than olutmies and jaeger then
<serpente>
you could even rename core to crux hahah, to make it obvious
<SiFuh>
Could.
<SiFuh>
By the way emmett1 decided to use devtmpfs and hated it and installed mdev
<SiFuh>
I like the ukky's idea of having DEVMGR and you can choose eudev mdev udev and none
<SiFuh>
When I am ready to work on that. I will add this option
<serpente>
nice
<SiFuh>
Two days ago, I looked into what I do and use and I don't use udev at all even though it is installed.
<ukky>
And rc.conf should be sysvinit-specific. rc.conf should be split into crux.conf and rc.conf. crux.conf should have generic system settings, unrelated to sysvinit.
<SiFuh>
And since it is a server. I found no need for udev to even exist
<ukky>
For a while a few years back I was running my system without udev, without mdev, just static /dev.
<SiFuh>
ukky: Actually serpente and I were discussing something similar. I can make the Pkgfile editable. So you can choose 'make --disable-colour' and build it without colour.
<ukky>
I would not use core/rc, as I use runit
<SiFuh>
All you'd need is is CUSE_COLOUR=1 or 0 and DEVMGR=1 or 0 or 2 or 3
<SiFuh>
But this could be implemented into a BASH rc, C rc, or even a runnit script.
<ukky>
No numbers for DEVMGR, those should be predefined/reserved strings.
<SiFuh>
ukky: I am lazy to type it dude.
<SiFuh>
Think of it like option 1, 2, 3 or 4
<SiFuh>
Chuck in a README and if they ignore it. Default the fuckers
<ukky>
No. If you are lazy, then just drop it.
<SiFuh>
ukky: I just did a few hundred hand crunches to piss off lavaball because he says I have fat hands.
<SiFuh>
Finger's are moving slower. :-P
<ukky>
That's okay. I did none.
<SiFuh>
ukky: So you type it for me then. I will telpathically transmit what I am thinking. Go!
<ukky>
I already typed it in this channel, or -musl D
<SiFuh>
I was trying to focus Milwaukee Titanium Tip Drill Bits.
ppetrov^ has quit [Quit: Leaving]
zorz has joined #crux-social
<zorz_>
SiFuh: John Wick Linux
<SiFuh>
zorz_: ukky: will punch you because John and Wick are both REAL NAMES
<zorz_>
heh
<zorz>
actually he is right.... not linux in the name
<zorz>
something Tropical...
<SiFuh>
zorz_: I am not going to ask anyone to compile Ubuntu dude
<SiFuh>
The Swedish name "Liden" means "a long slope" and is derived from the Old Norse word "lid," which refers to a hill or slope. It is also associated with a locality in Västernorrland County, Sweden.
<SiFuh>
The Swedish name "Per" is a variant of the name "Peter," which is derived from the Greek name "Petros," meaning "rock" or "stone." In a biblical context, it is often associated with the apostle Peter, who was one of Jesus' closest disciples. The name symbolizes strength and stability.
<zorz>
Petra is stone
<zorz>
this ancient City, Petra in Jordan
<SiFuh>
zorz_: I will petra you in the face
<zorz>
opencrux
<SiFuh>
OpenCRUX
<SiFuh>
Because it is open to all the users
<SiFuh>
zorz_: Never thought of it that way. Heh, that's pretty cool
<SiFuh>
I vote OpenCRUX!
<zorz>
me too
<zorz>
so we respect the history of CRUX... but its time to move on
<zorz>
OpenCRUX
<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: dlcusa: ukky: farkuhar: serpente: and all you other clowns ^
<zorz>
no one is clown unless he is named farkuhar :P
<farkuhar>
What happened to the criterion "4 letters or less"?
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: That was for a full name replacement
<SiFuh>
Appending 4 letters onto CRUX fits the critera :-P
<zorz>
but as much as some of us like musl,,, not me, never tried yet.... it needs to be easy for people to compile programs. so main option i think should be gcc with glibc
<farkuhar>
So what about ukky's request that "new name should not have reference to Crux"?
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: Actually I am concerned abou emmett1. He wants nothing to do with the name CRUX. He wants to make it a new distro. Which I am not really for.
<SiFuh>
zorz: bitch is 5 letters
<zorz>
if we use prt-get....
<zorz>
crux is not bad.
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: I didn't agree.
<zorz>
crux is only the package manager.
<SiFuh>
zorz: I don't think so but you are close
<zorz>
okay SiFuh and an outdated rc
<SiFuh>
HAHAH
<zorz>
with a start-stop-daemon by you witch is adapted from other people aswell
<SiFuh>
Don't activate my brain dude! It's almost 6am. I need to sleep. Not re-awaken
<zorz>
hahahahaha
<zorz>
go go... we talk tom
<zorz>
tomorrow.
<SiFuh>
No I am here.
<SiFuh>
I just don't want sparks flying in my brain. It is relax time dude
<SiFuh>
zorz: My wife notices my difference
<zorz>
okay
<zorz>
OpenCRUXer!
<SiFuh>
zorz: My wife says "You are silent, always looking outwards. Like you are thinking. You don't acknoledge me or anyone. You start writing code and days go by and you never come out. You never even use the toilet or shower". She is wrong... I do use the toilet.
<zorz>
use and the shower!
<zorz>
hahaha
<zorz>
Dirty Sifuh!
<SiFuh>
Actually I didn't shower two days already. :-P
<SiFuh>
I didn't leave the PC so how can I be dirty?
<SiFuh>
As for the toilet. I was doing some plumbing (Never finished). I had a thought and abandoned it because rc in ANSI C was priority.
<SiFuh>
24mm spanner is still on my table hahaha
<zorz>
ooo fuckin hell
<zorz>
SiFuh: is nuts!
<SiFuh>
I solved my leak. I just threw a rag on the floor
<SiFuh>
zorz: He was arrested by the CCP because he was boasting his money gives him power. Thye kicked his ass and released him.
<zorz>
tomorrow
<SiFuh>
zorz: Let me farkuhar it. He is not the only speed reader here
<zorz>
hahahahaha
<zorz>
where is this boy....
<SiFuh>
Delete it
<SiFuh>
It's a fucking novel about Jack Ma
<SiFuh>
Has nothing valuable
<farkuhar>
You can't go straight to OpenCRUX. Following the precedent set by {Net,Open}BSD would require first creating the fork NetCRUX, and only later forking that to create OpenCRUX.
<zorz>
no farkuhar....
<SiFuh>
farkuhar: la la land doesn't exist here farkuhar
<SiFuh>
zorz: I guess farkuhar is aiming for a no
<zorz>
guys name it as you please... i just had an idea... Open is good.
<zorz>
what i wanted to say and i forgot....
<zorz>
aaaaaaa
<farkuhar>
I like GNU-style recursive acronyms. FINC would expand to "FINC Is Not CRUX", if we're okay with retaining some reference to CRUX in the new name.
<zorz>
SiFuh: as Malcolm X said, I dont see any American Dream, I see only American Nighmare hahahahaha
<SiFuh>
zorz: I am growing weary of this. We have a channel full of 5 clowns and 3 retards and when 2 or 3 people come up with a name, 7 thousand 8 hundred and 1 morons are against it. And out of the 7 thousand and 8 hundred and 1 morons, only 2 have an option.
<SiFuh>
Grow the fuck up guys
<zorz>
yes... but not Ce la vie.... they find a solution.
<SiFuh>
Not such is life dude.
<SiFuh>
Such is dumb shit fucking excuses
<SiFuh>
I have been asking for a name settle for how long now?
<SiFuh>
No one. Should be priority in the front of EVERYONE's mind
<SiFuh>
Get a fucking name so we can start working on shit. Stop your fucking whinging.
<zorz>
yes.... procastination
<SiFuh>
In fact zorz, I am going with OpenCRUX screw everyone.
<SiFuh>
I like it. Good call zorz
<farkuhar>
Congratulations zorz, your name won!
<zorz>
i told you i register and the channel just in case... if you like i drop it and you re register
<SiFuh>
zorz: You have the channel already?
<zorz>
yes man join
<farkuhar>
zorz: no need to drop it, just transfer the ownership to SiFuh.
<SiFuh>
No
<SiFuh>
I am unstable
<SiFuh>
Transfer to remiliascarlet and farkuhar
<zorz>
yes i transfer... no problem with me
<SiFuh>
And keep zorz in the loop
<SiFuh>
Also email whitequark. I give you the address
<zorz>
guys the channel is yours..... what you want you do.... i really dont care
<SiFuh>
And what to say
<zorz>
shall i give you my emails password to do it yourself? :P
<zorz>
ahhahahaha
<SiFuh>
zorz: you are founder. You need help I will help you give farkuhar and remiliascarlet the keys (Including you) and the correct channel permissions
<SiFuh>
zorz send an email to this address whitequark@whitequark.org
<SiFuh>
Hi, I am a channel founder and a channel operator and I would like to request if whitequark can log our channel #crux-musl.
<SiFuh>
My name is zorz which is the same name I use and registered with libera
<SiFuh>
This is a forked project called #OpenCRUX not related to the CRUX project
<farkuhar>
whitequark is already logging #crux-musl. I think you meant #opencrux.
<SiFuh>
Like that.
<SiFuh>
Yeah sorry
<SiFuh>
I was coping and email one of many.......
<SiFuh>
good catch farkuhar
<zorz>
ok
<farkuhar>
Speaking of which ... I should tell Libera to drop the #crux-musl channel now that we have #opencrux. There's no need to have the conversation fragmented even further.
<zorz>
farkuhar: i think so
<SiFuh>
Not now farkuhar
<zorz>
later
<SiFuh>
crux-social and crux-musl will stay untill we release.
<zorz>
first make ready the opencrux.... but i need to give permissions to remiliascarlet and farkuhar
<zorz>
let me read
<SiFuh>
zorz: I prepare a correct email for you zorz in dpaste
erilun06-mobile has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer]
erilun06-mobile has joined #crux-social
erilun06-mobile has quit [Quit: Quit]
erilun06-mobile has joined #crux-social
zorz has quit [Quit: leaving]
<erilun06-mobile>
[23:40] SiFuh: The Swedish name "Liden" means "a long slope" and is derived from the Old Norse word "lid," which refers to a hill or slope. It is also associated with a locality in Västernorrland County, Sweden.