<remiliascarlet>
It's still funny how we went from pissing off NeoCRUX staff with the truth about the scamdemic to creating a new Linux distro.
<remiliascarlet>
farkuhar: RCNL: Real CRUX is Not Linux.
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<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: Yep
<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: You know the plan right? MUSL, GLIBC and multilib. 6 monthly releases with only critical and patch updates in between.
<SiFuh>
inittab will lost tty5 because X server is moving to it for those who use X
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<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: And zorz ends up a channel founder ;-)
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* SiFuh
afk
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<SiFuh>
ukky: This CRUX ISO needs a full overhaul. Instead of loading all this rootfs into RAM can't we have a very very minimal rootfs? Then mount a separate partition with the extras?
<SiFuh>
Create a micro linux like Tiny Core. A shell script to dd it to a USB drive and create a second partition. Just mount and copy the CRUX files to that. Umount, reboot into the microlinux. Mount the partition, mount your drives and run the installer from the partition.
<remiliascarlet>
MLGA: Make Linux Great Again.
<ppetrov^>
MCGA: make crux great again
<SiFuh>
MOGA Make Olutmies Gone Again
<ppetrov^>
"moga" means "i can" or "i'm able to" in Bulgarian
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: So you moga MOGA then?
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<remiliascarlet>
SiFuh: Yes, I know the plan.
<SiFuh>
remiliascarlet: The plan?
<SiFuh>
The plan changed
<remiliascarlet>
Do those patches get delivered via something like "syspatch" on OpenBSD? That would be pretty cool.
<remiliascarlet>
SiFuh: The plan fell off.
<SiFuh>
Heh no different system
<SiFuh>
No the plan got better
<remiliascarlet>
I sad it in reference of 9front's slogan.
<SiFuh>
planb
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<ppetrov^>
don't forget, guys, to submit OpenCRUX to DistroWatch
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: thanks but they already know. :-P Did that a week ago but didn't give them a name.
<ppetrov^>
cool
<SiFuh>
It's all in motion... we just need to get the 4 installer ISO's built
<SiFuh>
I was hoping dlcusa would have done the MUSL so I can base the GLIBC off of it. But I think that is delayed. So I have to decide. ISO and installer. Or just do GLIBC straight up.
<SiFuh>
GLIBC should be pretty easy. If we keep to similar to CRUX 3.8. We just remove the crap like Linux-PAM and shift a few ports around. But each will eventually need to be revised.
<SiFuh>
Oh and no one gave me a vote on OpenSSL or LibreSSL
<serpente>
both, i would default to open, but let it be choosable/configurable
<SiFuh>
Well we can use /usr/include/openssl or /usr/include/libressl
<SiFuh>
Probably could install both :-P
<serpente>
let it be a choice, maybe upon installation, or in a config file
<SiFuh>
serpente: Can't really at the moment. I have plans to re-write the intire CRUX setup script but I think the ISO being priority is much more useful.
<SiFuh>
entire*
<serpente>
true, i would not bother much with a iso now, but more for a rootfs
<SiFuh>
And I plan to create a CRUX rescue USB that will contain all 3 versions of CRUX in the near future
<SiFuh>
Yes, I want a super slimmed down rootfs or none at all. The none at all option is going to be tricky for those who use ISO images.
<SiFuh>
But for USB we don't need a rootfs.
<SiFuh>
serpente: By the way, neighbours are complaing about the thumping when I do the hand conditioning. hehehe
<SiFuh>
serpente: If we use USB and scrap ISO. It would remove a lot of stuff like scanning partitions and stuff looking for CRUX media. And you could boot the fully modular kernel. No need to worry about whether CRUX will boot off your hardware and you can use it as a rescue boot by changing root-/dev/sdX#
<SiFuh>
No need to load rootfs meaning more memory available.
<SiFuh>
No need to worry about writing an ISO. Just provide a simple boot partition and that is all. Want to update. Mount the second partition and copy everything over.
<SiFuh>
Then boot ;-)
<dlcusa>
That's brilliant, SiFuh! I fully agree with that approach, seeing no real downside.
<SiFuh>
dlcusa: I have my moments ;-)
<SiFuh>
Actually I have had the idea since 2015
<SiFuh>
Maybe a bit eariler.
<dlcusa>
Makes it no less brilliant.
<SiFuh>
dlcusa: Is it simple enough to load a USB image in a VM compared to an ISO image?
<dlcusa>
Now you have the means to make it so and leave the ISO approach in history.
<dlcusa>
I cannot think of a reason why not so far.
<SiFuh>
Let's do it! It's really simple
<dlcusa>
It's really elegant.
<SiFuh>
Just install CRUX to a simple partition. Check out the size. Minimise the partition size. Then dd it off. Write a script to dd it back to a USB with a bootable MBR and a UEFI. Can easily use SYSLINUX. Then the user just fdisks, cfdisk, parted the remaining partition and all new CRUX is copied to it and read by the bootable partition.
<SiFuh>
Yes and I have done it a lot. That is why I wonder, why no one actually really does it.
<dlcusa>
Stuck in a rut and thinking that's just the way it is.
<SiFuh>
OpenBSD is was even simpilar. But we don't need to do it anymore. But still works. Downlaod bsd.rd for what ever version you want on to a running system and network install for upgrade or downgrade.
<SiFuh>
dlcusa: Maybe. I've some new ideas for the installer. I write it in C and also insert ckut (My CRUX KERNEL UPDATE TOOL) in C not bash too. And provide handbook menus at the top or right side of the screen (Like CMOS) for install.
<SiFuh>
Try to stick as closely to the original CRUX installer but add new features with notes
<SiFuh>
I can make a FreeeBSD or Slackware kind of installer in C but.... I do kind of like the old CRUX way of doing it.
<SiFuh>
setup-ng, setup-chroot, setup-kernel like that.
<dlcusa>
Looking forward to the PoC release.
<SiFuh>
I can introduce parted or cfdisk or fdisk, but even as cool as it sounds. Why bother?
<SiFuh>
This isn't priority. Creating a glibc CRUX is #1 which I start this week
<SiFuh>
But as I said before it needs to be stripped of cmake and meson crap until I find a core port that relies on it.
<SiFuh>
And each port takes a lot of time to inspect and modify and tweak. I want it close to original build with very little modification
<dlcusa>
But what do you do when original is very un-CRUX?
<SiFuh>
So I don't want to see 100 lines of enable and disable. I want it close to how they before CRUX originally wanted it but enough to see, hey, I don't need this.
<SiFuh>
Most of core is UN-CRUX already but still CRUX in a way. Just lots of added extra features
<dlcusa>
I think some of these concerns will fall out in the PoC testing.
<SiFuh>
And I think and haven't discussed it yet that core should be complete even if it shouldn't. That way core is unmodifable. However, if I introduce package deps, that I don't need should it be unmodifiable? So It is a great pain in the giant arse of thinking and thought provoking ideas
<SiFuh>
dlcusa: I personally care zero about opt and xorg. Core must be pure, clean, and the best of the best
<dlcusa>
That's why it's good to do the first PoC, expecting it will probably be significantly altered for the second try.
<SiFuh>
And as I said to farkuhar. I would be very happy if OpenCRUX only gave core and some minimal opt
<SiFuh>
dlcusa: I don't speak acronymn. What is PoC?
<dlcusa>
I agree, especially since there will be a market for almost every variation that comes forth. Even Beerman might like that.
<SiFuh>
I have 49 ports I think now in core and opt. Every day have to add a new one. But why opt? WTF is going on
<dlcusa>
proof of concept.
<SiFuh>
dlcusa: I want core the most pure. That means, you can install it on a server and not worry about any junk. You want to tweak it. Sure, leave it out for others. Maybe offer a tweaked repo.
<SiFuh>
But we should not have to remove shit we don't need
<SiFuh>
We should add
<dlcusa>
That is a high-level principle.
<SiFuh>
It's in my note version of the constitution
<SiFuh>
Which, I would appreciate if everyone helps by giving ideas like this for the OpenCRUX constitution so we can make a set of immutable laws.
<dlcusa>
I've only seen one nomination for the UNIX Philosophy standard.
<SiFuh>
I don't use linux-pam, dumb_runtime_dir, sudo.... for example. In fact sudo and doas SHOULD never have been in core. su is fine. Optional.
<dlcusa>
No one is arguing that, I believe.
<SiFuh>
I also recently discovered I don't even use udev
<SiFuh>
And rc.fix? Useless file on my system so I don't even run X
<SiFuh>
dlcusa: I have two options make an xorg-rc patch port or just write it into rc bash or C. I think better to write it in to be honest
<SiFuh>
And I'd like farkuhar to add more configuration options but not now, maybe 2 or 3 years into the future. Like no_x11 ports.
<dlcusa>
How necessary do you consider it to be?
<SiFuh>
It basically checks if you have then runs. if it doesn't exist then don't run.
<SiFuh>
It's for GUI font.
<SiFuh>
I don't need it on a server. No sane person would install a GUI on a server
<dlcusa>
Yes, X11 or anything else like it is not core.
<SiFuh>
dumb_runtime_dir. I am assuming was port into core for gayland. It is XDG shit.
<SiFuh>
dlcusa: I also discussed with serpente maybe my ANSI C binary of rc can have two options for Makefile. Colour and no Colour. But a universal config like OpenBSD /etc/mk.conf you could set it. Then you could ahve two rc files. One with colour option and without.
<SiFuh>
CRUX uses pkgmk.conf so it could be there.
<dlcusa>
I personally believe color is not core.
<SiFuh>
Then that would be a farkuhar thing
<SiFuh>
dlcusa: I agree. But the interesting thing is that colour IS going to be introduced to my stuff because verbose, debug are pretty much identical to colour functions and ppetrov^ will love it.
<dlcusa>
As long as it's not required.
<SiFuh>
So I can make two build options in the Makefile. If colour is true build the colour version. If false or nothing, then build without colour
<SiFuh>
It could be configured in the package file or iniversally with pkgmk.conf
<SiFuh>
universally*
<dlcusa>
I'll go along with that approach.
<SiFuh>
Because I am sure ppetrov^ type people will want colour in many things. So it can be a build option for many ports
<SiFuh>
VERBOSE and DEBUG should be available for all under rc.conf though
<SiFuh>
But for now, as much as I want to introduce VERBOSE and DEBUG into my rc. I think we really need to start distro building. Then on the side, tweak stuff
<SiFuh>
Rule of Silence: When a program has nothing surprising to say, it should say nothing. <-- 100 percent agree
<ppetrov^>
that's one dirty screen, SiFuh
<SiFuh>
No that is a dumpster find
<ppetrov^>
good
<SiFuh>
Hahahaha
<SiFuh>
Many dumpster shit here
<SiFuh>
New REPO is being built on one I found the other day.
<SiFuh>
Kernel is compiling with ukky's MUSL
<SiFuh>
emmett1 can't believe how much hardware I find. Says I am lucky. Even my wife looks in the bins now before she goes home. That's how we scored the UPS.
<SiFuh>
It was thrown out because it wasn't working anymore. 100% sure. I tested it with the battery from my Land Cruiser. It works find.
<SiFuh>
fine
<SiFuh>
dlcusa: ppetrov^: I am surprised at the amount of businesses that throw out computers and leave the hard drive in.
<ppetrov^>
heh
<ppetrov^>
i never throw hard drives
<ppetrov^>
even keep some old 40GB ones somewhere
<SiFuh>
The Original CRUX repo server of mine was in a trash bin at the back of a legal firm. I spent a week reading the case files.
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: Yes. Drill the fuckers. Scourer them. Grind them. Make sure the platters are decimated.
<ppetrov^>
will use a hammer
<SiFuh>
I keep all my drives
<ppetrov^>
not that i have sensitive info, it's a principle thing
<ppetrov^>
when I left my old-old workplace, i formatted the hard drive of my work OC, changing the file system several times
<SiFuh>
I use to do data retriveal back in the 90's. Had some awesome tech over 10K in value. You just remove the disks and put on the spindle. The heads auto adjust and just scan and pull everything. Even if you sticky tape the disks together it will detect it and raise the heads.
<ppetrov^>
in the end left it at NTFS
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: Could work but I bet I could steal the data still.
<SiFuh>
Just zero or random it a few times
<ppetrov^>
i don't know how to do that
<SiFuh>
Still can get data but it is the safest way. Hence as much as serpente disagrees with me. All my drives are encrypted
<ppetrov^>
back in the day it did not occur to me at all
<SiFuh>
Well, it's done and probably gone anyway
<SiFuh>
My favorite was when IBM created glass platters
<SiFuh>
You could turn it into sand.
<SiFuh>
Hammer was perfect
<SiFuh>
But most are on aluminium
<SiFuh>
Just unscrew it and scratch the shit out of it with a steel scourer
<SiFuh>
Heh ppetrov^ I bought two 2 TB external drives once. Here in Malaysia online. When they arrived I took liberty of checking them. In Linux error. In Windows 2 TB. So I took the case apart and realised they were like 64GB drives. Then realised with further inspection that I was cheated. They said I need to format in Windows. I said I use Unix. Then they went silent. So I messaged them back and said I
<SiFuh>
know what you have done. And I got instant refund. But the external cases I still use today.
<SiFuh>
Oh and it doesn't matter what drive you connect to them. They register as seagate :-P
<ppetrov^>
heh
<SiFuh>
ppetrov^: Tell you how I do data retrieval these days without my 10K tech. Linux or Unix and dd. Clone the drive with skip on errors. Then pull the data from the dd image.
<SiFuh>
It works very well surprisingly.
<SiFuh>
Linux is easier with dd_rescue
<SiFuh>
I chagre 50 an hour 100 every hour after. But usually I just get a carton of beer.
<SiFuh>
1 hour = 50, 2 hours 150 and 3 hours is 250.
<SiFuh>
Most are happy to spend 150 on a carton of beer.
<SiFuh>
Me too because I do almost nothing. But get a carton of beer out of it
<SiFuh>
No need to drive and buy
<SiFuh>
dlcusa: What has no legs and goes downstairs backwards
<dlcusa>
Best I can can come up with is flowing water, but I think that's missing something, SiFuh.
<SiFuh>
dlcusa: Wrong escalator.
<dlcusa>
Wasn't thinking in terms of moving stairs.